That's like calling the holocaust a "conflict" and that in that "conflict" everybody sucked. That's the kind of bothsidesism you would have gotten away with before Israel's genocide[1] of Palestinians which led people to studying the history[2] of Palestine and the history of Zionism and realizing that this "conflict" is not some random accident but the outcome of a carefully crafted colonial project by secular european-jews with nationalist ambitions - long before the holocaust. For these secular jews, who also considered colonizing Uganda, Madagascar, Cyprus, Argentina (Baron Hirsch's colonization project), Birobidzhan - USSR (Jewish Autonomous Oblast), Alaska (Slattery Report proposal), British Guiana, judaism was simply a useful tool to legitimize their colonial project: "Most Zionists don't believe that God exists, but they do believe that he promised them Palestine".
[1] https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/prof-amos-go...
[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20231029055310/ojp.gov/ncjrs/vir...
You more reasonable and patient than I am. Well said.
What context of the Zionist project justifies Hamas' actions and intent? ... they both "suck".
Colonizing might not be the right word to use for Zionism. It was used historically. But the more appropriate word in today's time might be "asylum seeking". The Holocaust was not the primary motivation for Israel (as you mentioned), nor was it capitalistic settler-colonialism that is referenced in contemporary understanding. It was to escape persecution - "pogroms" and the like.
This is an understandable reason to seek refuge. Many debated coming to the US instead of forming Israel. But there was reasonable fear that Jews would face the same oppression there.. which is understandable given the US's racist past. Turns out, folks that went to the US made the right choice. But this wasn't so clear at the time.
"Palestine" was not a state when Zionism began. There was no "Palestinian people". There was a diverse group of Arab people living in a territory controlled by the Ottoman Empire. This territory happened to also be the ancestral homelands of Jewish people. Jews emigrated to this land to join other native (though much less populous) Jews in the area.
With the current administration that's not gonna happen anytime soon and I doubt you'll see it change in the next 20-40 years. Do you think you'll decide to be more constructive in that time?
That's nothing but peak genocide denial rhetoric. There are Neo-Nazis who use the exact same rhetoric as you to deny the holocaust. How would it be "career suicide" for Amos Goldberg to argue against it being a Genocide as long as he provides credible arguments? It only would be "career suicide" because anyone with half a brain can see that it's a Genocide. Anyone who is not a Zionist and has just seen a fraction of the mountains of evidence can conclude without a doubt that it's a Genocide. One has to be completely delusional to deny it.
Amnesty International investigation concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-inter...
Press releases UN body, UN Special Committee finds Israel’s warfare methods in Gaza consistent with genocide, including use of starvation as weapon of war: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-c...
I'm not gonna pretend I'm on some moral high ground or whatever. As a Jew I'm just happy I wasn't actually born in Israel and didn't inherit all the problems that come with it.
Before Oct 7 I was seeing more and more of the arab world normalize relations with Israel. Now it's all gone down the drain again.
I also don't think Israel is demographically sustainable, all the ultra religious people have like 8-12 kids, the seculars maybe 3. Sooner or later that's just gonna explode in people's face.
My position on the whole conflict is along the lines of "everybody sucks". The descendants of the arabs that chose to cooperate with Israel became Israeli citizens, the descendants of the arabs that chose to not, are in a world of sh*t.
It's kind of hard to be reasonable when you have every reason to be resentful. Even when there are reasonable people, if they try to change something they'd mostly be pissing in the wind because the established leadership is funded by Iran and has no interest in improving the situation for anyone but themselves.
Israel also is very good at making their neighbors hate them by pulling all sort of dick moves and giving far right wingers a green light to do whatever the hell they want.
It's all bs and I want none of it. I will on purpose not marry a Jewish woman just to make sure my kids aren't Jewish and they're less likely to be tempted to swallow the nationalistic bs that makes gullible young people who want to be special and different sign into getting themselves blown up or shot for a cause that's just not worth it.
Wow I got more emotional than I thought I would.