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Re:Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video] by cies on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @04:58AM (#42557685)
Israel has exceptionally great PR, especially with people in power.

Palestinians have horrible PR (carrying dead bodies on the crowd's hands in tiny streets, is not something westeners relate to).

In Europe a large part of a generation believes that the holocaust is the reason the state of Israel needs to be. Why is Israel not founded on a repurposed piece of Germany then?

Re:Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video] by austin-cheney on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @05:22AM (#42557773)
Numerous polls indicate younger generations strongly favor the Palestinian side of the conflict in direct opposition to older generations. That being said I would say PR is not working out for Israel.

I suspect that is because older generations remember the PLO as a major terrorist organization supported by numerous other terrorist organizations. Although most of the world still sees Hamas as a terrorist organization younger generations haven’t witnessed any notable Palestinian sponsored terrorist act until the Oct 7 attack. Even then as horrible as that attack was Israel still found a way to completely over shadow it with something much worse.

At the same time the world is also watching wholesale increases of violence against Palestinians in the West Bank will reading about illegal settlements.

That is astoundingly bad PR. It’s so bad now that any action Israel takes against Iran is seen as unilateral, excessively aggressive, and unprovoked which was absolutely not the case just 20 years ago.

Then to somehow still make that much worse the typical response to disagreements from political hardliners is to call people antisemetic. Older generations used to cautiously appreciate the sensitivity of such and tread carefully. Younger generations seem tired of hearing it from Israeli politicians.

Re:Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video] by jedimind on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @06:16AM (#42558021)
>Older generations used to cautiously appreciate the sensitivity of such and tread carefully. Younger generations seem tired of hearing it from Israeli politicians.

I think it's much simpler than that. Younger Generations are just sick and tired of walking on eggshells when it comes to calling out jewish-exceptionalism[0] and that trend was accelerated after having witnessed the self declared "jewish-state" commit livestreamed terrorism and genocide for more than a year with absolute impunity. Israel was[1][2][3] and Israel still is the biggest terrorist organization in the region by far and has been since its inception[3].

[0] The Appeal to Jewishness Fallacy, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0MAJ6nSRYA

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_extremist_terrorism

[3] https://web.archive.org/web/20231029055310/ojp.gov/ncjrs/vir...

Re:Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video] by cies on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @07:07AM (#42558246)
> That being said I would say PR is not working out for Israel.

In the long run not. That's I believe why we see so much aggression: time's running out for 'm.

> I suspect that is because ...

I think it is because the older generations believed corporate media. Younger gens get their news from elsewhere. If you picture the "conflict" in numbers you will see the Palestinians suffered much greater losses, while Israel plays the victim card on every occasion. Kids simply dont buy it.

Re:Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video] by immibis on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @06:21AM (#42558044)
Because Europe hates Jews. Israel's founding was the actual final solution the European Allied powers decided for the Jewish question - Hitler thought his would be final, but it was penultimate. Leaving the Jews in Europe would not be tolerated by any party to the war.
Re:Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video] by cies on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @11:37AM (#42559774)
Do you have any source for this? I find the general narrative to be one of jew-friendliness over here.
Re:Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video] by immibis on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @06:19PM (#42562606)
Why would narrative have anything to do with reality? If anything, the term "narrative" is usually used to emphasize that something is the opposite of reality.
Re:Bertrand Russell on Zionism [video] by tim333 on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @05:01PM (#42562191)
You can only put so much spin on the underlying policies of the leaders of the two groups and their associated documents. You've got Israel which is basically trying to run a liberal democracy where people get on and Hamas with - pasting a bit from Wikipedia:

>The charter defines the struggle to be against the Jews and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic Palestinian state in all of former Mandatory Palestine, and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel. The charter has been criticized for its use of antisemitic language, which some commentators have characterized as incitement to genocide.

Given the only real solution is for the two sides to get on and not attack each other, the Hamas position is unfortunate.

Also re

>not something westeners relate to

the October attacks on a music festival etc in the name of Allah Akbar and that are pretty relateable to westeners as we get that too with Islam enthusiasts flying into the twin towers, blowing up busses in London, mowing down pedestrians in Nice etc and as you say it's not great PR.