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Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by stogot on Saturday December 28, 2024 @11:53AM (#42532305)
Joining a defensive treaty (NATO) is not a real provocation, but is rather a post hoc justification for Putin‘s desires.
Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by jodleif on Saturday December 28, 2024 @12:52PM (#42532844)
Also people seem to forget 2014, it’s not like it’s unwarranted for Ukraine to want to join NATO
Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by pessimizer on Saturday December 28, 2024 @03:12PM (#42534173)
In 2014, the US overthrew a democratically elected Ukrainian government by financing neo-Nazi militias and their political allies, and encouraged them to expel Russian speakers from the East, after passing a bunch of laws against the Russian language. They replaced the President with a guy who left office with a 6% approval rating, and resulted in the public voting for a Russian-speaking Jewish non-politician.

Nobody cares what Ukrainians want, people and the media speak of "Ukraine" as if it's one guy that made a decision rather than a bunch of US operators who pulled off a coup. Or worse, Ukraine is a woman raped for wearing a short skirt (which as a metaphor thankfully died out when the West got back to hating women), or a long-bullied child. The discussion allowed in the West outside of intellectual circles is forced to stay at this sort of a childish level, because the people selling weapons and carving up Ukraine want people to buy into their childish defenses of creating a generation of dead Ukrainians for adventure.

Killing half a million Ukrainians so that a country whose population is a third Russian doesn't vote for the Russian-friendly candidate over some Western-backed candidate who wants to exterminate and expel Russians, in the name of some manufactured notion of Ukrainian ethnic purity that maybe 25% of the population conforms to, is no deal that the "Ukrainian people" would take willingly, or that anybody sane would take. If NATO would keep them safe, they want to be in NATO. If Russia would keep them safe, they'd want to be aligned with Russia.

Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by sampo on Saturday December 28, 2024 @03:19PM (#42534248)
> In 2014, the US overthrew a democratically elected Ukrainian government by financing neo-Nazi militias and their political allies

This is how the American far-right and far-left sees it. But how do the Ukrainians themselves see this?

Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by aguaviva on Saturday December 28, 2024 @04:56PM (#42535147)
Killing half a million Ukrainians so that a country whose population is a third Russian doesn't vote for the Russian-friendly candidate over some Western-backed candidate who wants to exterminate and expel Russians,

Nowhere near a half a million have been killed.

The country identified as 17 percent Russian in the last census.

No one one from the Ukrainian side was going to, or is ever going to expel or exterminate anyone.

No one from Ukraine I talk to (including people very close to events at the time) gives any credence to the "coup" theory.

You obviously have no understanding of the Language Law, or what it actually does. And anyway it was passed in 2019 and so had nothing to do with events of 2014.

People in the West talk about the Ukraine situation all the time, from every angle, include quite obviously very pro-Russian angles. Not just online, but right there on major channels like Fox and CNN. There are no "allowed" or "disallowed" viewpoints, or any other repercussions or constraints.

Everything you're saying above is sheer lunacy, basically.