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Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by skeeter2020 on Thursday December 26, 2024 @10:01AM (#42515595)
I've been experimenting with Flatnotes (https://github.com/Dullage/flatnotes) for a while and really like the design. No notebooks or even folders, just a single directory with markdown files and decent search & tagging. It feels a lot like what happened to email when we gave up all the up-front structuring with deep hierarchies and just said index it and we'll find it when we need to.

The project is just "good enough" for what I need, and aside from tiny bugs whenever I find a gap I can either work around it or live without. Constraints are a powerful motivator for both creativity and getting stuff done.

Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by zelphirkalt on Thursday December 26, 2024 @10:14AM (#42515674)
Tagging is a strictly more powerful tool than hierarchies, at least with same amount tags vs directories/categories, because an item can be tagged using multiple different tags, but can only be in one directory, unless you create duplicates or symlinks or whatever.
Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by cal85 on Thursday December 26, 2024 @12:08PM (#42516323)
I find the opposite. Being forced to consider hierarchical categorisation leads to a more powerful system in practice. It helps me create a mental reference to the item being stored. And it often causes me to see a better way to form an item in the first place — eg maybe this note is really two notes, maybe this idea can actually just be discarded, etc. Or, on rare occasions, a new item doesn’t fit anywhere (but is important) so I need to tweak the hierarchy itself — and that’s a good thing, once in a while, as it can lead to creative insights about the domain as a whole.

I’ve found tagging systems usually become a kind of dark swamp where things go never to be seen again. The lack of structure means I have little memory of what’s gone into the system, so I end up with too much duplication of ideas and inconsistency of style (mess). All this makes it uninviting and difficult to ‘explore’, so I don’t use it much except as a dumping ground, and the swampiness compounds over time.

Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by kortilla on Thursday December 26, 2024 @02:30PM (#42517166)
Hierarchy doesn’t make sense if you care about multiple dimensions, which I often do with notes.

Sometimes I want to look at all notes relating to c++, sometimes everything related to a personal project. Directories don’t support that without symlinking everything that mentions c++ into a folder for that.

Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by Charon77 on Friday December 27, 2024 @07:06PM (#42527293)
Hierarchy can do that too, once you allow a single file to exist in multiple hierarchies at once. Think of database, we have a single table, yet we have a lot of different indexes to search on.

We could do the same, either with symlinks or hardlinks

Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by sunshine-o on Thursday December 26, 2024 @03:50PM (#42517700)
I really like tagging but somehow the concept could never become central to any filesystem:

- I believe BeOS tried,

- MS tried with WinFS but cancelled it in Windows Vista,

- I am sure some cloud storage service bet on it but can't cite any.

Actually tagging is probably mainly successful in cases where we can reliably automate the tagging such as email or photos.

Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by setopt on Thursday December 26, 2024 @06:14PM (#42518615)
MacOS has had first-class support for file tagging for years: You can add arbitrary tags either from “Save as” dialogs or from Finder, and can then browse by tags in Finder or search through your file system filtered by tags.
Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by maroonblazer on Thursday December 26, 2024 @08:34PM (#42519255)
Does the native file tagging see much adoption? I'm a lifelong Mac user and tried using the tags when they first launched, but eventually it was too much work and I resorted to using search to find what I'm looking for. Not macOS native search but tools like LaunchBar, Alfred, et al or apps like EasyFind.
Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by nxobject on Thursday December 26, 2024 @09:02PM (#42519377)
Colours, yes – but then again I worked in a print shop that'd been using Apple since MacOS 8, so they might be used to those quirks.
Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by zelphirkalt on Thursday December 26, 2024 @07:45PM (#42519056)
I like tagging for bookmarks in Firefox and derivatives of Firefox.
Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by bloaf on Friday December 27, 2024 @09:41PM (#42528127)
Sharepoint tries to push people towards tags, but doesn't always succeed.
Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by speedupmate on Friday December 27, 2024 @02:57AM (#42520619)
Everything is a hierarchy, even the tags in your mind do belong under some tree/node like imagination. Tag is essentially just what you described "duplicates or symlinks or whatever."
Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by bloaf on Saturday December 28, 2024 @12:21AM (#42528803)
This isn't really true. Even mature, sophisticated attempts at making hierarchical classification systems (e.g. the UDC[0]) don't claim to have created a system where each document gets a unique leaf on a tree, and indeed instead attempt provide some syntax for adding additional metadata into its "nodes," i.e. the nodes become the sum of their tags.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Decimal_Classificati...

Re:Siyuan: Privacy-first, self-hosted personal knowledge man... by Y_Y on Friday December 27, 2024 @05:45AM (#42521251)
> but can only be in one directory, unless you create duplicates or symlinks or whatever.

Non-sym links do exactly this. Starting with your file in foo;

    ln foo/file bar/file
will have the file (really a reference-counted pointer) appear in both directories. It's the same location on disk and there's no overhead until you run out of inodes.