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Re:Judge Refuses to Allow Sale of Infowars to The Onion by logicchains on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @08:29AM (#42387465)
>If you’re a deliberate liar who provably lies to profit and harm others, you can and should be punished.

The first amendment absolutely gives you the right to lie, and the right to profit from that lying if you're not explicitly committing fraud or defaming anyone. You may disagree with it, but that's what the law is.

Re:Judge Refuses to Allow Sale of Infowars to The Onion by JamesSwift on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @08:39AM (#42387560)
Well I hate to break it to you but profiting by lying is the definition of fraud. In general if someone is impacted by your actions you are open to legal ramifications.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fraud

Re:Judge Refuses to Allow Sale of Infowars to The Onion by commandlinefan on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @12:27PM (#42390261)
That's incredibly pedantic. What Alex Jones engaged in was nothing remotely like "fraud". The poster you're replying to is correct, the first amendment does protect "liars".
Re:Judge Refuses to Allow Sale of Infowars to The Onion by vel0city on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @10:12AM (#42388511)
Have you really never heard of perjury or fraud before?

You don't have a right to lie.

Re:Judge Refuses to Allow Sale of Infowars to The Onion by the_optimist on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @12:46PM (#42390485)
Both of these concepts are specifically defined in law, whereas “lie” is not. You are made of marshmallows! Sue me.
Re:Judge Refuses to Allow Sale of Infowars to The Onion by vel0city on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @01:03PM (#42390723)
> You are made of marshmallows!

This is defamation, which is also against the law. However, the damages here are incredibly minor, and thus not worth punishing. Most people probably don't believe you.

However, if I made a lie about you that caused you to lose your employment and become unhireable, is that also protected speech?

You don't have a right to harm others with lies. You don't have a right to lie.

Re:Judge Refuses to Allow Sale of Infowars to The Onion by the_optimist on Thursday December 12, 2024 @03:46PM (#42403163)
There is no evidence that being made of marshmallows is damaging to one’s reputation, and thus this would not necessarily be classified as defamatory. The law requires proven damage. The details are tricky.
Re:Judge Refuses to Allow Sale of Infowars to The Onion by vel0city on Thursday December 12, 2024 @10:28PM (#42405702)
> The law requires proven damage

I'm aware. That's why I mentioned it. There's no remediation if there's no damages.

If I'm made of marshmallows I'm not human and not eligible for health insurance. If my insurer believes your claim which is a reckless disregard for the truth and I'm denied coverage, you're liable. If my wife leaves me because she didn't want to marry a marshmallow and causes massive legal damages and emotional harms you're liable for defamation.

It's like you're arguing you have the right to punch. Like, sure, swing your arms wherever. But your right to swing your arms ends at the tip of my nose.

You don't have a right to lie about me.

Re:Judge Refuses to Allow Sale of Infowars to The Onion by the_optimist on Friday December 13, 2024 @11:02AM (#42409748)
You seem to have the concepts logically inverted. Mistruth is necessary for defamation but not sufficient. You are quite certainly allowed to lie, generally. You are even allowed to lie about me, and there is no exemption to the recognition of God-granted freedoms for it in the US.

However, there are very specific exceptions. You are not allowed to lie under oath. You are not allowed to defraud. You are not allowed to defame. Those states are each defined separate and apart from “lying,” which is freely permissible.

Re:Judge Refuses to Allow Sale of Infowars to The Onion by skywhopper on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @09:17AM (#42387895)
You really should read up on these things before you make statements like this.
Re:Judge Refuses to Allow Sale of Infowars to The Onion by kiba on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @08:40AM (#42387566)
Defamation is basically lying about someone to damage their reputation. So I don't think that the first amendment gives you the right to lie?

Also, doctors and lawyers are subjected to discipline by their respective guild. So even if it's your right to say bullshit, you might lose your job and license.

Arguably, there's no to little consequence of being a nobody and lying about something like autism and vaccine. It's probably isn't worth the effort to sue folks. That said, misinformation is clearly harmful and we shouldn't let people lie unchecked.

Re:Judge Refuses to Allow Sale of Infowars to The Onion by dublin on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @11:50AM (#42389740)
Yeah, that self-policing guild discipline by doctors and lawyers has really worked out well, hasn't it?