40 years ago was 1984. They certainly did algebra.

In the really old days algebra was A LOT harder too. Look up an old book like Chrystal.

Yeah I'm just saying that even at that time, algebra as a subject was high school or for the "advanced" 8th graders. Calling 4th/5th grade math topics "pre-algebra" would be a real stretch IMO.

confirm that algebra was introduced wholly as an 8th grade math class, and only available to a tested subset to enroll in that.

My experience in India is that simultaneous linear equations were taught in the 7th standard (12 years of age). I looked it up and it is common https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beMAypc7ju4

I do not recall it being particularly difficult and most students were able to do this stuff. I'd say that by the end we had 100% success at this out of the 50 students or so in my class. Is this algebra in the US or is it the group theory stuff we studied later on. The group theory stuff was _much_ later (12th standard - 17+ years) and we didn't go too advanced. Mostly simple stuff like proving something is a group or Abelian, etc.

The syllabus I studied was the Tamil Nadu State Board, which is considered less rigorous than the Central Board, so I can only assume the kids elsewhere were studying more advanced stuff. But overall, that sort of timing hasn't hampered me or most of my classmates from then, so one must assume it's not too bad to study group theory that late.

> I do not recall it being particularly difficult and most students were able to do this stuff. I'd say that by the end we had 100% success at this out of the 50 students or so in my class. Is this algebra in the US or is it the group theory stuff we studied later on.

Your parent comment is talking about solving a single linear equation such as "5x + 2 = 1". That's where "algebra" begins in a US pre-university context.

In a university context, "algebra" does indeed refer to group theory, and the basic concept of manipulating a numeric variable goes by the more elevated name "college algebra".

Thank you for explaining. Hard to believe that 13 year olds could fail to do this, or at least formally manipulate the equation till they have a satisfactory answer. Something is wrong with pedagogy or the process of practice.

What's wrong with the pedagogy is the idea that no one should be taught any material until everybody is capable of learning that material. Variable manipulation can be easily learned by 4th graders. But it can't be learned by all 4th graders, so everyone has to wait.

Just in case you think I might be misleading you somehow, here's a cheat sheet product for a "college algebra" course; again, "college algebra" refers to the material that would normally be covered in or before high school, except that it's being covered in college. So the idea of this product is that current college students will buy it to help them understand what's going on in class, or to review for a test.

https://www.amazon.com/College-Algebra-Quick-Study-Academic/...

> RULE: if a, b, and c are any real numbers and a = b, then a + c = b + c.

[later]

> Some equations require more than one inverse operation to solve.

> EX[AMPLE]: Solve the equation 5x + 3x - 1 = 15

Many 4th graders would have genuine trouble grokking the notion that a variable (a "letter") may be used in an expression to stand for some arbitrary number. This is why it may be more sensible to reinforce quasi-algebraic reasoning at that age by indirect means, such as practice with non-trivial word problems and with e.g. computing expressions that involve a variety of operations w/ rules of precedence, parentheses etc.