News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by tomp on Friday December 06, 2024 @02:12PM (#42343135)
> he's a big fan of the Iron Guard

This is quite typical character assassination, and it's sad that people still fall for it.

I looked up how he's actually associated with the Iron Guard, and it looks like he literally said that they 'also did “good deeds”' [1]. This is literally on the level of "fine people" hoax that the mainstream media perpetrated against Trump!

Why do I think that Calin's right that "far right" also "did good deeds"? Because the same thing literally happened in my country, Slovenia.

Look, WWII was a shitty time. War, and it wasn't necessarily a fight of "good versus evil". In Slovenia, there were "partisans" who were communists, fighting against Hitler's occupation. Of course, having seen the evils of communism, a lot of Slovenians (farmers, city businessmen) opposed communists (and they were right, from a historic perspective!). They formed the "white guard". Unfortunately, Americans allied with partisans (communists), so the white guard allied with Nazis.

Communists won, and wrote history. White guard is almost uniformly - in media, education etc. - known as the bad guys, traitors to the nation, etc. where in fact they were simply people fighting for their lives against communists (rightfully so, communists killed a lot of wealthy owners etc. after the war). Fortunately, the WWII and the aftermath is literally in living memory, so if you talk to the right people, you learn about it...

Looking back, I wish the "Nazi-collaborators" White Guard won. Hitler would have lost regardless, but then maybe Slovenia wouldn't be subjected to another 40 years of totalitarianism and repression by the communists...

[1] https://balkaninsight.com/2022/02/01/romanian-nationalist-le...

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by cbg0 on Friday December 06, 2024 @02:24PM (#42343267)
This isn't character assassination, we're talking about his own words. He even plagiarized a speech by Ion Antonescu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Antonescu):

https://www.euronews.ro/articole/calin-georgescu-se-dezice-d... - he goes back on some of the things he said and tries to distance himself, but the Internet is forever.

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by SeanLuke on Friday December 06, 2024 @03:39PM (#42344165)
> I looked up how he's actually associated with the Iron Guard, and it looks like he literally said that they 'also did “good deeds”' [1]. This is literally on the level of "fine people" hoax that the mainstream media perpetrated against Trump!

What hoax?

https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trump...

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by TMWNN on Friday December 06, 2024 @03:57PM (#42344350)
The hoax was and is that Trump called white supremacists "very fine people". As the transcript shows, that remark was specifically in regards to people disagreeing with the notion of removing statues of slaveholders and Confederates. Trump specifically went on to say

>And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by lukan on Friday December 06, 2024 @04:58PM (#42344979)
"Communists won, and wrote history."

Not in the west, so you can look up what actually happened.

"Americans allied with partisans (communists), so the white guard allied with Nazis."

This for example would be news to me from a parallel universe. Or from the wiki of alternative facts.

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by tomp on Friday December 06, 2024 @05:13PM (#42345125)
Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by lukan on Friday December 06, 2024 @05:27PM (#42345243)
Did you read the part, why the allied rather supported their ideological enemies, than the iron guard? What I understood, they aligned with the Nazis quite naturally.
Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by curtisblaine on Friday December 06, 2024 @06:34PM (#42345762)
As far as I know, Americans supported Italian partisans (of any color, but the majority of them communists or socialists) against the nazi-fascists, so I'm not terribly surprised they did it elsewhere.
Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by lukan on Friday December 06, 2024 @10:16PM (#42346959)
That they supported them, yes. But supported in a way that this leaves all the non communists no other choice than to side with the nazis, no.
Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by tomp on Saturday December 07, 2024 @04:54AM (#42348574)
One side is trying to kill you, the other isn’t, which one would you choose?
Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by lukan on Saturday December 07, 2024 @05:20AM (#42348717)
I would ask myself first, why the partisans want to kill me.

There were (and maybe still are) indeed also communist fanatics - but the common red partisan was not a bloodthirsty killer going after anyone who had private property.

So the alignment with the Nazis of the wealthy and privileged happened way before. I am from germany. We had the same story, the common people all did not turn Nazis overnight, but fear of the communist made them align with the Nazis. And the rest is history. I am no expert on concrete romanian or slovenian history. But what I know sounds pretty much the same what I know from german history where I have also first hand accounts. And I strongly disagree to that excuse. The bourgeois did had a choice and it was NOT just between communist or faschism. But they eventually did choose one side - and bear the responsibility. They did fought for a faschist europe, with all implications.

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by tomp on Saturday December 07, 2024 @05:26AM (#42348750)
It’s obviously different than in Germany, where nazis were (mostly) homegrown.

I know several second/hand accounts (i.e. from people who had it happen to their family). Murders, theft, barbarism (stabbing a pregnant woman in her stomach). Some during the war, some after when communists won.

As I said, terrible times. War. No good choices, especially without foresight. I just wish people didn’t praise communists as much as they do, and vilify their opponents.

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by lukan on Saturday December 07, 2024 @07:06AM (#42349215)
"where nazis were (mostly) homegrown"

Well, Nazis were the german flavour of the rise of ultranationalism, racism and fascism, but the movement existed in all of europe. With the first peak in the civil war in spain.

And Hitler was very clear on his plans for the jews and for war to conquer in eastern europe. Anyone siding with him, did make their choices and could have known the consequences. (same goes for anyone siding with Stalin).

"No good choices"

So probably yes. And I won't claim I would have decided much better, if I would have lived in that time. So I am not trying to judge from moral high ground.

But the choice was never binary between Stalin and Hitler, or only in extreme situations maybe. Because you know, after the war in germany - there were also no Nazis anymore. Never have been. They just had no choice. Followed orders. Were afraid of the communists. So definitely not responsible for anything.

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by etc-hosts on Friday December 06, 2024 @05:06PM (#42345052)
Never thought I would see someone defend Iron Guard on here.

One thing you see these days in Romanian But Written In English twitter these days is defense of the good character of Corneliu Codreanu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corneliu_Zelea_Codreanu

He led one of the WW2 Fascist anti Communist groups that were so committed to Nazi ideals, that the actual Nazis asked them to tone it down a bit because they were making them look bad.