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Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Thursday November 21, 2024 @10:05AM (#42204946)
It’s really rather simple. Anyone on this planet only has as much authority as their guns provide them. The people who operate these courts have fewer guns than the US, so they don’t get authority over US interests.
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by Cumpiler69 on Thursday November 21, 2024 @10:08AM (#42204996)
Of course. Isn't it obvious how in history books the "good guys" were always those with the most guns who ended up defeating the guys with less guns, who lost and were always the bad guys, 100% of the time? What a strange coincidence.
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by umanwizard on Thursday November 21, 2024 @11:09AM (#42205732)
Do you have an example of someone who is widely regarded as "good guys" that you disagree with?
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by mywittyname on Thursday November 21, 2024 @10:54AM (#42205558)
History is full of "winners" that who are seen as "bad guys."
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by Retric on Thursday November 21, 2024 @10:15AM (#42205079)
US interests is a very broad category, it frequently doesn’t get its way.

There’s tit for tat involved where things might escalate to the point where the US kills some people via airstrikes, but it simply can’t escalate everything to a full on war.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by Cumpiler69 on Thursday November 21, 2024 @10:36AM (#42205358)
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Thursday November 21, 2024 @10:40AM (#42205415)
Do we have many examples of cases where countries have held US soldiers or commanders of allied nations captive without repercussion?
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by Retric on Thursday November 21, 2024 @11:40AM (#42206060)
Does Garry Powers count? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Gary_Powers

“He served 21 months of his sentence before being released in a prisoner swap in 1962.” So no actual retaliation, and we gave up something they wanted for him.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Thursday November 21, 2024 @12:26PM (#42206533)
That’s what we would call “the exception that proves the rule”.
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by Retric on Thursday November 21, 2024 @12:38PM (#42206653)
Edit: It’s hardly the only or most severe example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2)

There’s also edge cases. Yeh Changti was trained by the CIA and then shot down flying a U-2 in 1963 and held in China for 19 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeh_Changti

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Thursday November 21, 2024 @06:32PM (#42209773)
Listing examples of chinese nationals captured in a time when 85% of Americans today weren’t even alive isn’t proving the point you seem to think it is.

The simple fact of the matter is that modern countries simply don’t want to mess with america.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by Retric on Thursday November 21, 2024 @07:13PM (#42210030)
Your question included allies, but if we’re talking US citizens only USS Pueblo (AGER-2) Was a capture of a US military vehicle, torture of its crew, and we did nothing.

But how recently are you thinking here?

1994: US apologies and pays reparations to return US soldier shot down by NK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_invol...

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Thursday November 21, 2024 @11:18PM (#42211134)
Sure, going back to the main point North Korea has guns and this helps to hem get their way. And if we restrict ourselves to those countries which are relevant to the main point (ICC member states), they don’t, and don’t. What’s your point? To date all you’ve done is list rule proving exceptions.
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by Retric on Friday November 22, 2024 @06:12AM (#42212853)
That’s no true Scotsman… but anyway as long as you’re giving up the idea that this different recently.

Compare France or the UK as ICC member states with NK and your argument is obviously false. They have plenty of nukes to be a major issue.

I’ll flip this around, try and find examples that fit your narrative outside of fiction or active wars. IE, situations where civilians are in charge of deciding what our military is doing.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Friday November 22, 2024 @05:25PM (#42217856)
I still don’t know what your point is. I’ve been consistent since the beginning. UK and France are quite weak indeed, nuclear is a separate plane that is irrelevant in this thread.
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by Retric on Friday November 22, 2024 @09:01PM (#42218722)
You asked:

> Do we have many examples of cases where countries have held US soldiers or commanders of allied nations captive without repercussion?

And clear answer to that such a year yes, with dozens of examples off the top of my head that I was unsure in what context you might assume it was true.

> UK and France are quite weak indeed

Not in comparison to NK and especially not historic NK they aren’t. Have you ever actually studied foreign events, history, or looked into foreign militaries etc? You have such a distorted viewpoint I just find it baffling. In terms of traditional military NK has 1/3 the UK’s population, vastly worse industry, outdated equipment, minimal ability to move beyond their borders, etc. In a head to head fight they would lose badly.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Friday November 22, 2024 @09:53PM (#42218865)
> Have you ever actually

Every day of my life, actually. It’s clear you don’t, and I don’t particularly care. Good day.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by Retric on Friday November 22, 2024 @10:01PM (#42218891)
> It’s clear you don’t

Its been years, but I worked on strategic planning for the DoD. As in the group that actually plans how to preform an invasion, though I was developing the software not doing the actual planning. They still wanted us to have an understanding of what’s involved.

All I can suggest is your methods are inherently flawed. Ask yourself why you were unaware of all these incidents and how you might change that deficiency.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Saturday November 23, 2024 @09:46AM (#42221176)
Yes, I see that it’s been years. That’s why all your examples are ancient news. Consider other people might be active, and that you never actually refuted my point.
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by Retric on Saturday November 23, 2024 @11:29AM (#42221696)
> That’s why all your examples are ancient news.

Not in the ways you might think. I used examples from well outside the periods and events I have classified knowledge of, for legal and ethical reasons.

However, reading your responses I can understand why you ended up with such a wildly inaccurate understanding of the world. It’s been interesting talking with you.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by s1artibartfast on Thursday November 21, 2024 @10:15AM (#42205075)
what exactly do you think would happen differently if you took the US out of the picture?
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Thursday November 21, 2024 @10:38AM (#42205383)
Israel wouldn’t exist.
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by s1artibartfast on Thursday November 21, 2024 @10:39AM (#42205392)
it wouldn't pop out of existence magically
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by IncreasePosts on Thursday November 21, 2024 @11:08AM (#42205716)
You're right, it would pop out of existence very unmagically by being invaded and destroyed by about 6 of its neighboring countries.
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Thursday November 21, 2024 @10:43AM (#42205452)
Yes. And?
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by s1artibartfast on Thursday November 21, 2024 @11:04AM (#42205664)
I dont see the point of making the ICC judgement about the US.
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Thursday November 21, 2024 @11:24AM (#42205890)
True. The court is immaterial, the guns are the only authority. As I said.
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by s1artibartfast on Thursday November 21, 2024 @12:58PM (#42206855)
yes, and in this case, the relevant guns are those of the ICC and Israel.

The court has no army or power, while Israel does, so US guns are already irrelevant. Israel doesnt need US military protection form the ICC any more than it needs US protection from random critics.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Thursday November 21, 2024 @01:47PM (#42207330)
Guns don’t exist in a vacuum. They need constant financial support. US provides that support. Without US, they have no support. Without support, they have no guns.

Don’t just take my word for it, look at all the published requests Israel has made for American gun money.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by s1artibartfast on Thursday November 21, 2024 @02:04PM (#42207496)
They have more than enough capability on their own to fend off a toothless judge in Europe.

You cant apply the realities of a 3 front national war to a weak court order.

Furthermore, I think you are highly overestimating their US dependency. US Aid amounts to a small percentage of the domestic Israeli defense budget.

I can ask for a free food at costco, but that doesnt mean I'll starve without it.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Thursday November 21, 2024 @02:17PM (#42207621)
Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by s1artibartfast on Thursday November 21, 2024 @02:47PM (#42207875)
I don't think so. I am aware that the US has thrown in about 20 Billion to the war effort. Israel has spent more than twice that much from its own budget.

Pre-war US military aid was about 4 billion/year, compared to the the Israeli domestic budget of 16 Billion/year.

The idea that Israel would have "no guns" without US aid is flat out wrong. Doubly so when you are talking about enough guns to to defy the ICC, which actually has zero.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Thursday November 21, 2024 @02:59PM (#42207985)
Ha. “more than double”. So, a third? If I needed government welfare to pay half my salary in order to get by, I’d consider myself pretty damn dependent. A far cry from getting a free meal at costco to be sure.

But I agree it’s not the ICCs guns that are the problem for any israeli’s wellbeing.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by s1artibartfast on Thursday November 21, 2024 @03:01PM (#42208002)
Im not claiming the war-effort hasn't benefited greatly.

you are the one claiming Israel wouldn't even exist as a country without that aid.

Re:ICC issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and ... by aphantastic on Thursday November 21, 2024 @03:09PM (#42208104)
Yes, it wouldn’t. You haven’t provided any evidence to refute that.