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Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by adastra22 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:34AM (#42064825)
> Inflation is actually the increase in the money supply. The term is used wrong almost everywhere today.

The word has multiple meanings. That’s monetary inflation. The primary meaning in use today is price inflation.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by _heimdall on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:36AM (#42064868)
Its used in many ways, that doesn't redefine the word though. Inflation is a policy of increasing the money supply, nothing more and nothing less.

Inflation is not price increases. If that is the definition then the metric is effectively useless. Prices can increase for any number of reasons, looking only at price changes doesn't tell us anything meaningful or actionable.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by adastra22 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:43AM (#42065006)
“Inflation” doesn’t mean anything by itself. It is a shorthand for either price inflation or monetary inflation. Or inflating a balloon. Context is needed.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by _heimdall on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:07PM (#42065421)
> “Inflation” doesn’t mean anything by itself.

It absolutely does when the correct definition is still used. Inflation is an increase in money supply, that's really all there is to it.

Your point is why the use of "inflation" to mean price increases is so meaningless. Prices change for any number of reasons and you need context. When "inflation" still means in increase in the money supply there is no context required to know what it means, though obviously that's not all the information you need to understand the economy.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by interestica on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:50PM (#42066204)
What's "shrinkflation"?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by bluecalm on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @02:46PM (#42068206)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inflation

You are wrong and that's why you are misunderstood. I would suggest just saying "increase in money supply" if you mean increase of money supply instead of using a term that means "a continuing rise in the general price level". That will make people understand what you mean.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by monktastic1 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:48AM (#42065077)
It's not just "used in many ways," it has several definitions. The one that almost everybody uses -- including the Fed[0], US Dept of Labor[1], and the ECB[2] -- is about rise in prices. Nobody is saying that your definition is bad or wrong, but to claim that it's the only (or even primary) one is disingenuous.

[0] https://www.clevelandfed.org/center-for-inflation-research/i...

[1] https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/statistics/inflation

[2] https://www.ecb.europa.eu/ecb-and-you/explainers/tell-me-mor...

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by _heimdall on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:30PM (#42065829)
Sure, though it makes sense that most economists use the price inflation term. The change in how "inflation" was being used largely goes back to Keynes and Modern Monetary Theory. Most economists today fall into that bucket, of course they use the term in the same way.

That doesn't change the fact that the attempt to redefine it both co-opted the word and made it functionally useless. Prices change for all kinds of reasons. The amount of change alone is meaningless and using that meaning of the word allows economists today to play a lot of shell games with the numbers.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @01:46PM (#42067224)
> change in how "inflation" was being used largely goes back to Keynes and Modern Monetary Theory

This is totally false. It dates to the inter-War period, specifically, to describe Weimar hyperinflation. (If you just look at money supply, it was bad. If you look at prices it was the disaster that it was.)

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by jjk166 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:47PM (#42066151)
> Its used in many ways, that doesn't redefine the word though.

That's exactly how words get redefined.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by erulabs on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:52PM (#42066233)
> Word X means Y, NOT Z

Wittgenstien would like a word. Words always mean whatever the hell the speaker thinks they mean, which is always unverifiable. We should always endeavor to understand what people _think they mean_ instead of insisting on some (faulty) denotation.

The inflation argument is always frustrating. In a vacuum, inflating the _supply of money_ would delate the _price of money_ which inflates the _prices of goods_. Most people say "inflation" to mean the price of goods, but it does no good to insist that one definition means you can't use the word in other ways!

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by lottin on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @02:48PM (#42068236)
So I can use the word 'dog' to mean a cat? Nonsense. The purpose of words is to communicate meaning. Therefore we must agree on what that meaning is beforehand in order to communicate effectively.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by singlow on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @03:51PM (#42069168)
Don't for heaven's sake, be afraid of talking nonsense! But you must pay attention to your nonsense.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by erulabs on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:23PM (#42069633)
What's a dog? Is a child's plastic toy in the shape of a dog a dog? Maybe. Is a cross-bread wolfhound a dog? Maybe. Language games! Meaning is "fuzzy around the edges".

If you insist a cat is a dog, we're not playing a fun game - but that's up to me and up to you - Maybe someone in an undiscovered tribe doesn't know these words and wouldn't balk. If you say "dog" when you mean to insult someone, I might know what you're saying. But there is no mechanism to verify internal meaning.

I _strongly_ suggest reading some Wittgenstien if you're interested in this topic! If I say I speak Swedish fluently but refuse to ever utter a word, do I speak Swedish? Only our actions can vaguely point at our meaning. Language is a game we play with each other which does not and cannot communicate ultimate meaning. All we can do is agree or disagree to play games - animals dancing around a fire.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by _heimdall on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:47PM (#42069987)
This is my main beef with "inflation" being used differently now from what it had been historically. Going back to the roman empire it was always about money supply increase, Keynes and crew decided that didn't sit well with them since money supply manipulation was their whole game.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by lottin on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:14PM (#42070318)
You're just parroting the same thing again and again without providing any evidence. For a start, the amount of money in circulation is an unobservable quantity. It's extremely unlikely that the Romans had a word for it.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by fuzzfactor on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @10:26PM (#42073051)
In antiquity[0], debased coinage would be equivalent to inflated currency today.

Each time the Romans debased their currency, they could be fairly confident that previous more valuable issues had a tendency to be hoarded if possible from that point on, and with a precise measure of the exact amount leaving the treasury could get a reasonably good estimate of how much was actually needed to be in general circulation. Perhaps the minimal amount to get by, perhaps not, maybe just depending on how generous Caesar felt at the time. And by offering a slightly more-than-fair exchange for the silver content, when issued, the amount that can afford to be hoarded can be deduced. While still turning a little bit of a "profit" from fractional percentages of silver that the general public can not measure accurately. Their central bankers were as shrewd as any existing today, equally as gifted mathematically as modern man can be.

Further inference can also be made about the resulting state of affairs by later following the private trading of recalled issues at "inflated" (previous) values.

If you were the one setting monetary policy risky enough that the chance for collapse was not as slim as it could be, you would want to know how close you were cutting it and the best way would probably be to get as good a handle on the money supply as you could, even if you could not gain full control. Nobody can anyway. But all effort always will be toward gaining more control.

This is basically the variable you could call _value of money_.

Not exactly the same as _price of money_, which is manipulable somewhat differently, but directly related to it in terms of _prices of goods_.

Which seems to be directly related to any type of inflation you can imagine :\

[0] Like the 1960's.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by lottin on Thursday November 07, 2024 @11:55AM (#42078411)
Sources?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by fuzzfactor on Thursday November 07, 2024 @01:32PM (#42079429)
No telling if the ancients acted on the information that was available if they wanted to, this is just one of the ways to do it that is not in conflict with their habit of gradual debasement of their coinage as reissues took place over the years.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by zero-sharp on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @10:15PM (#42072986)
Jesus. I'm reading this thread through the regular website layout and these kinds of derailments make it more difficult.