I would want a specific example in that case rather than "the good managers figure it out" because in my experience, the bad managers pretend to figure it out while the good managers admit that they can't figure it out. Worse still, if you tell your reports what those metrics are, they will optimize them to death, potentially tanking the product (I can increase my bug fix count if there are more bugs to fix...).

So for a specific example I would have to outline 1-2 years of history of a team and product as a starter.

Then I would have to go on outlining 6-12 months of trying stuff out.

Because if I just give "an example" I will get dozens of "smart ass" replies how this specific one did not work for them and I am stupid. Thanks but don't have time for that or for writing an essay that no one will read anyway and call me stupid or demand even more explanation. :)

I get it, you are a true believer. I just disagree with your belief, and the fact that you can't bring credible examples to the table just reinforces that disagreement in my mind.

The thing is even bad managers can thrive in a company with a large userbase like Google. There is a lot of momentum built into product and engineering.

So basically you have nothing useful to say?

I have to say that there is no solution that will work for "every team on every product".

This seems to be useful to understand and internalize that there are no simple answers like "use story points!".

There is also loads of people who don't understand that, so I stand by that is useful and important to repeat on every possible occasion.

I heard lines of code is a hot one.