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Re:New iMac with M4 by bee_rider on Monday October 28, 2024 @12:11PM (#41972729)
Isn’t Apple’s RAM inside CPU package? I think it might not be possible to put together a system (at least with consumer parts) that matches their memory bandwidth.

On the other hand, they are limited in capacity. It is a trade off, it is silly to pretend they are just limiting memory capacity out of the vileness of their hearts or something.

Re:New iMac with M4 by angoragoats on Monday October 28, 2024 @12:20PM (#41972878)
> Isn’t Apple’s RAM inside CPU package?

No, but their marketing department would like you to think so.

> It is silly to pretend they are just limiting memory capacity out of the vileness of their hearts or something.

They are limiting memory capacity and charging you 8x-10x reasonable retail price for upgrades, so that their profit margins stay high. Whether or not that's vile is something I leave to you to decide.

Re:New iMac with M4 by wtallis on Monday October 28, 2024 @12:27PM (#41972978)
> No, but their marketing department would like you to think so.

Can you link to a teardown that finds RAM somewhere other than the CPU package?

Or were you in too much of a hurry to notice that the comment you replied to didn't make the common mistake of claiming the RAM is on-die not just on-package?

Re:New iMac with M4 by angoragoats on Monday October 28, 2024 @12:30PM (#41973032)
If you're trying to get into a semantic argument about the meaning of "CPU package," I'm not interested, thanks!
Re:New iMac with M4 by wtallis on Monday October 28, 2024 @01:30PM (#41973754)
You already made a pretty specific claim on that point. You were just wrong.
Re:New iMac with M4 by bee_rider on Monday October 28, 2024 @12:58PM (#41973386)
FWIW I wasn’t trying to start a semantic argument about the meaning of the term “CPU package,” I just thought it was a clear and specific term.
Re:New iMac with M4 by angoragoats on Monday October 28, 2024 @03:19PM (#41974983)
Thanks for clarifying, and especially for not being snarky!

I think I was thrown off by your use of the term "inside," vs other terms like "on" or "part of," which led me to believe you were asking about the memory being part of the SoC proper. If that's not what you meant, I apologize.

The memory consists of standard DDR4/5 memory chips, soldered on a PCB, directly next to the M-series SoC. So my point was that while it is likely faster than any memory you could get on a standard consumer PC, it's not in any way special (read: more expensive) for Apple to source or assemble.

Side point: I don't think it's necessarily fair to compare most Macs to consumer PC hardware, given the price differentials involved.

Re:New iMac with M4 by Wytwwww on Monday October 28, 2024 @06:16PM (#41977040)
> capacity out of the vileness of their hearts or something.

No, it's obviously because they can upcharge on upgrades? That's just market segmentation. I doubt it can have much to do with technical limitations or actual costs (the the difference the wholesale price between 8GB and 16GB is relatively marginal).

> I think it might not be possible to put together a system

No, but you can get a Lunar Lake laptop with comparable bandwidth. Dell is also "only" half as "greedy" as Apple or MS, e.g. 16 GB -> 32 GB is only $200 instead of $400.