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Re:Shall We Use Clojure? by pka on Monday July 02, 2012 @12:56PM (#4189663)
Good you're not a manager then.

When I switched from C to Java, I experienced a considerable bump in development speed. Just the collections framework was a godsend, not to mention things like GC etc.

Quite literally I would write things in days instead of weeks. Same thing goes for Java -> Clojure. And just to be clear, it is not my favorite language.

Re:Shall We Use Clojure? by dsrguru on Monday July 02, 2012 @03:08PM (#4190392)
neutronicus should read the Blug Paradox in pg's Beating the Averages (http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html).
Re:Shall We Use Clojure? by Ygg2 on Tuesday July 03, 2012 @05:10AM (#4193216)
Funny story. I programmed briefly in C and went to Java. I had almost five years of experience there. Due to circumstances, my sister now needs some help coding some stuff in C (note these aren't same types of problems I had). And I noticed that I am now so much more productive in C compared to what I was before. Hell I make less mistakes than in Java (granted problems are a bit easier).

My point is - are you sure you just aren't better programmer overall and attributing that (somewhat underservedly because GC and a huge choice of collections) to Java/Clojure/<insert language>?

Re:Shall We Use Clojure? by pka on Tuesday July 03, 2012 @11:50AM (#4194576)
Partly, sure. If I had to write some C again I would surely try to do it as functionally as possible, and with the added experience I have gained in the last years I would now probably be a better overall C programmer. But had I sticked with C and not moved on to other languages I probably wouldn't be much better now than I was before.
Re:Shall We Use Clojure? by dr42 on Monday July 02, 2012 @06:12PM (#4191317)
I'd hazard a guess that this had less to do with java and more to do with your lack of c experience. collections in c is a solved problem, there are numerous libraries (glib, for example) out there that are all similar to Java's collections.

C++ has stl with many of the same collections, and if you want to use auto_ptr, you don't even need to remember to call delete.

I am not saying there are not productivity gains to be had from using java, but as in this case, it typically comes from not having the relevant experience elsewhere.

Re:Shall We Use Clojure? by pka on Monday July 02, 2012 @08:01PM (#4191732)
Automatic memory management, instantaneous compilation, no portability issues, (easier) polymorphism. Maybe weeks -> days was an overexaggeration when it comes to C -> Java but I definitely experienced a big productivity gain, and it wasn't because of a lack of C experience.

From a quick glance at the docs glib looks good but it is still too low-level for normal app development (for example, the size of a hashing table created by hcreate() is fixed; so you have to create & copy & destroy a hash table if you want to add more elements than it can hold at a time) and it should be, that's the whole point.

C++ is a whole other story, sure.