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Re:Language is not essential for the cognitive processes tha... by kridsdale1 on Saturday October 19, 2024 @07:55PM (#41891770)
Don’t assume whales are less intelligent than humans. They’re tuned for their environment. They won’t assemble machines with their flippers but let’s toss you naked in the pacific and see if you can communicate and collaborate with peers 200km away on complex hunting strategies.
Re:Language is not essential for the cognitive processes tha... by batch12 on Saturday October 19, 2024 @11:06PM (#41892573)
Let's toss a whale on land and see if it can communicate and collaborate with peers 10 ft away on anything. I don't think being tuned to communicate underwater makes them more intelligent than humans.
Re:Language is not essential for the cognitive processes tha... by ninetyninenine on Sunday October 20, 2024 @03:17AM (#41893553)
> I don't think being tuned to communicate underwater makes them more intelligent than humans.

Your responding to a claim that was never made. The claim was don't assume humans are smarter than whales. Nobody said whales are more intelligent than humans. He just said don't assume.

Re:Language is not essential for the cognitive processes tha... by BoingBoomTschak on Sunday October 20, 2024 @05:46AM (#41894242)
Why would he not "assume" that when humans have shaped their world so far beyond what it was, creating intricate layers of art, culture and science; even going into space or in the air? Man collectively tamed nature and the rest of the animal kingdom in a way that no beast ever has.

Anyway, this is just like solipsism, you won't find a sincere one outside the asylum. Every Reddit intellectual writing such tired drivel as "who's to say humans are more intelligent than beasts?" deep down knows the score.

Re:Language is not essential for the cognitive processes tha... by ninetyninenine on Sunday October 20, 2024 @09:42AM (#41895312)
> Why would he not "assume" that when humans have shaped their world so far beyond what it was, creating intricate layers of art, culture and science; even going into space or in the air? Man collectively tamed nature and the rest of the animal kingdom in a way that no beast ever has.

Because whales or dolphins didn’t evolve hands. Hands are a foundational prerequisite for building technology. So if whales or dolphins had hands we don’t know if they would develop technology that can rival us.

Because we don’t know, that’s why he says don’t assume. This isn’t a “deep down we know” thing like your more irrational form of reasoning. It is a logical conclusion: we don’t know. So don’t assume.

Re:Language is not essential for the cognitive processes tha... by BoingBoomTschak on Sunday October 20, 2024 @09:59AM (#41895406)
It is very naïve to think that the availability of such tools isn't partly responsible for that intelligence; “We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us”. And it seems too man-centric of an excuse: you can see all our civilization being built on hands so you state that there can't be a way without.

The "they MIGHT be as intelligent, just lacking hands" theory can't have the same weight as "nah" in an honest mind seeing the overwhelming clues (yes, not proof, if that's what you want) against it. Again, same way that you can't disprove solipsism.

Re:Language is not essential for the cognitive processes tha... by ninetyninenine on Sunday October 20, 2024 @11:14AM (#41895832)
The difference is that my conclusion is logical and yours is an assumption.
Re:Language is not essential for the cognitive processes tha... by winwang on Sunday October 20, 2024 @06:20PM (#41898962)
Conclusion noted: nuke the whales before they nuke us.

(/s)