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Re:The digits of pi are not random by eesmith on Friday October 11, 2024 @12:44AM (#41806225)
Next try 10 million digits instead of 10 thousand.

The Z-score cannot be interpreted so easily. It must be evaluated over all the different ways people have tried to test the digits for randomness.

"Since the advent of computers, a large number of digits of π have been available on which to perform statistical analysis. Yasumasa Kanada has performed detailed statistical analyses on the decimal digits of π, and found them consistent with normality; for example, the frequencies of the ten digits 0 to 9 were subjected to statistical significance tests, and no evidence of a pattern was found." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

Re:The digits of pi are not random by seccode on Friday October 11, 2024 @12:49AM (#41806269)
I don't think you're correct that the z-score is not being interpreted correctly. I haven't been able to find research demonstrating any non-randomness in pi, so without that we have nothing to compare it to.
Re:The digits of pi are not random by eesmith on Friday October 11, 2024 @01:17AM (#41806397)
It's literally an xkcd, #882 https://xkcd.com/882/

There's a large literature of people looking for non-randomness in pi, and failing.

If you try 50,000 different tests, with a z-score of 3.29 then 0.1% - 50 of them - will give false positives.

Re:The digits of pi are not random by thunderbong on Friday October 11, 2024 @02:28AM (#41806798)
Re:The digits of pi are not random by seccode on Wednesday October 16, 2024 @10:15PM (#41865807)
Getting higher z-scores now. But you could always just try running the code yourself
Re:The digits of pi are not random by seccode on Friday October 11, 2024 @12:48AM (#41806256)
I don't have the resources to try this unfortunately. I highly encourage somebody to try. But with more digits you may have to change the model.
Re:The digits of pi are not random by eesmith on Friday October 11, 2024 @01:25AM (#41806448)
Yes, you do. You can download the digits at https://www.pilookup.com/download.html . You can generate models for different sized subsets. If it's really non-random, you should see the predictability stabilize as you get larger.

Otherwise you risk being seen as yet another math crank.

Re:The digits of pi are not random by seccode on Friday October 11, 2024 @01:34AM (#41806500)
The issue is not with getting the digits, the issue is with running a large model for larger digit ranges. I tried running with 10,000,000 digits and haven't gotten a prediction yet.
Re:The digits of pi are not random by seccode on Friday October 11, 2024 @01:38AM (#41806512)
Also, I am testing different ranges of digits other than first 10,000, but the problem with other ranges is that the distribution of digits is highly imbalanced and the model is not showing statistical significance, but models have a harder time when the distribution of classes is not 50/50, so I think its not quite fair to evaluate the model on these ranges.

So why do you think the first 10,000 digits are somewhat predictable?

Re:The digits of pi are not random by lifthrasiir on Friday October 11, 2024 @02:33AM (#41806830)
Because "somewhat predictable" doesn't mean "non-random". In fact, almost all prefixes of algorithmically random bit sequences are somewhat predictable with an appropriate definition of "somewhat", because you can find and exploit an accidental bias from taking the prefix and any such bias translates to some predictability.

(Another possibility is that, since pi itself is not really algorithmically random, the classifier was somehow able to learn how to partially compute pi! That's another pitfall you need to avoid even when you have a good understanding of information theory and statistics...)

Re:The digits of pi are not random by eesmith on Friday October 11, 2024 @05:11AM (#41807726)
The distribution of digits is 'highly imbalanced' because that's what random distributions look like. I'll randomly select the digits 0-9 for 10,000 times and show the distribution, then do the same with the first 10,000 digits of pi, then do the random distribution again:

  >>> import random
  >>> from collections import Counter
  >>> ctr = Counter(random.choice(range(10)) for i in range(10_000))
  >>> for digit, count in ctr.most_common():
  ...   print(f"{digit}: {count}")
  ...
  2: 1039
  4: 1035
  0: 1031
  7: 1022
  3: 1008
  6: 998
  1: 976
  5: 973
  9: 963
  8: 955
  >>> pi_ctr = Counter(open("1-10000.txt").read().rstrip())
  >>> for digit, count in pi_ctr.most_common():
  ...   print(f"{digit}: {count}")
  ...
  5: 1046
  1: 1026
  2: 1021
  6: 1021
  9: 1014
  4: 1012
  3: 974
  7: 970
  0: 968
  8: 948
  >>> ctr = Counter(random.choice(range(10)) for i in range(10_000))
  >>> for digit, count in ctr.most_common(): print(f"{digit}: {count}")
  ...
  8: 1060
  2: 1048
  0: 1034
  4: 1026
  5: 1025
  3: 979
  7: 977
  6: 960
  1: 956
  9: 935
You can see that the distribution of pi's first 10,000 digits is what one should expect for a random distribution. If your method requires a 50/50 distribution then it cannot be used for this purpose.

Also, you are thinking about it wrong. The first 10,000 digits of pi are perfectly predictable.

Re:The digits of pi are not random by seccode on Friday October 11, 2024 @12:39PM (#41811010)
I'm not predicting the number I'm predicting number%2==0. The model predicted better than the distribution probability
Re:The digits of pi are not random by eesmith on Saturday October 12, 2024 @01:55AM (#41816782)
It doesn't really matter. There are 4970 even digits and 5030 odd digits in the first 10,000. Predicting all odds gives you a better-than-even chance of being right.

What does "highly unbalanced" mean?

How often will a random sequence be "highly unbalanced"?

How many people used another model, found no pattern, and never reported it?

You have plenty of data to work with. Try the second 10,000, the third 10,000 and so on.

Keep clear in your mind that a lot of people worked on this problem, including trained mathematicians. It is far more likely that you do not fully understand what you are doing than that they are wrong. Believing otherwise is the path of crankdom.

Re:The digits of pi are not random by seccode on Saturday October 12, 2024 @06:49PM (#41823408)
It doesn't predict better than even, it predicts better than the distribution probability
Re:The digits of pi are not random by seccode on Saturday October 12, 2024 @06:52PM (#41823422)
Better to use statistical significance tests to talk about what is "far more likely"