Trollish nonsense. You haven't even really read my comment, or you'd know that the leverage ratio I mentioned, which you're challenging me to justify, was actually about the efficiency of the tools you yourself were touting, not vim. Your "conclusions" are obviously trolling.
Trolling. Really?
This guy is expressing an equally valid argument. And one that I suspect a fair portion of HN readers agree with.
Personally, I thought it was April 1st when I saw a foot pedal for a text editor!?
Accusing him of trolling is really lowest-common-denominator fanboi bullshit. He makes valid arguments, agree to disagree and move on.
Yes, trolling. Really. In every sense of the word. He didn't even respond to my argument. It's whining about downvotes, about how he doesn't have time for this argument, more repetition of the same irrelevant text-editing-is-unimportant argument that I already responded to, followed by deliberately trolling conclusions. This is not a back-and-forth with points and counterpoints. This is me responding to his points, and him throwing the same shit back like a parrot. I call that trolling.
You think he has a valid argument, cwills? Maybe you can point out to me where he has actually responded to my points.
Re:Vim clutch
by robomartin on Thursday June 21, 2012 @10:24PM
(#4145113)
In an effort to clear bad blood and actually learn something I decided to start this thread:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4145060
It should be obvious that it is intended to be useful and educational. No flaming. No trolling. No personal attacks. Just reproducible facts.
I am hoping that you will be one of the first people to post a recipe to that thread so that those of us who don't know enough about vi will, hopefully, see the light.
Thanks in advance.
Re:Vim clutch
by robomartin on Thursday June 21, 2012 @06:46PM
(#4144556)
I truly don't enjoy the personal attacks.
You win. Done.
You've written hundreds, if not thousands, of words in response to this article (about a neat hardware hack lets remember. You've been on a tangent since square one...) accusing vi users of "being tribal" and "drinking cool aid", pounding your own chest, attacking the HN voting system, and in general just doing your damnedest to start yet another editor flamewar.
Then somebody suggests that you are acting trollish, and to you that is simply uncalled for.
Really?
As for down-voting on HN. There's plenty of evidence that it is badly broken. It's funny to watch the Apple fan-boys down-vote on emotion when you even peripherally chafe their idols. The emotion is evident from the fact that substantive posts are down-voted when nothing is materially wrong or offensive about them.
Most of it is also what I call chicken-shit down-voting. No explanation and no reason given. You are accusing me for voicing a contrarian opinion without sufficient explanation. What about down-voting without any explanation whatsoever? I have only down-voted a post once and I went out of my way to explain why I did so. I believe I owe this much to someone if I am going to exercise that right. And so, that is my policy: If I down-vote I have to take the time to explain why. Otherwise I don't do it.
It is clear that the HN culture --at least the one exhibited on this thread-- is that vi/vim are fantastic. So be it. I don't have time to screw around with this topic any more and fend off fan-boy attacks. I suspect the same is true of your case.
I have used a myriad of tools over the years. The only use I have for vi/vim is when I have no choice but to use them. I remember when keyboards didn't even have function keys. In those days these kinds of tools made sense. Today? No. Not any more. You don't have to see it my way. And that's OK.
> they increase the ratio of work done to the amount of text-editing
I would challenge you to quantify that in the context of a real project, concept to completion. I would be willing to wager that vi/vim don't contribute one iota towards the completion of the project.
I have yet to do a project where anyone even remotely said: Wow, that text editor saved us hours of work.
That aspect of the adoration of vi/vim is what I see as ridiculous. I simply don't think that any of it is materially significant to the timeline of any non-trivial project.
Then again, I really don't care to continue on this thread because it truly is a waste of time for all involved. So we are done.
Conclusions:
1- No contrarian opinion of vi/vim will be tolerated by HN vi/vim users.
2- vi/vim are fantastic.
3- Anyone even remotely thinking of suggesting otherwise just doesn't get it.
I can live with that. No problem.