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Re:Inductive or Deductive? Rethinking the Fundamental Reason... by AdieuToLogic on Monday September 02, 2024 @01:08AM (#41422757)
> Brains do not reason ...

They can, at times, and do so best when emotion is not involved.

> I'm tired of reading comments from people who keep repeating that LLMs don't think, don't reason, isn't intelligence because it is not human.

LLM's represent a category of algorithm. Quite elegant and useful in some circumstances, but an algorithm none the less. A quick search produced this[0] example discussing same.

Another reference, which may not be authoritative based on whatever most recent edit the link produces, is[1]:

  A large language model (LLM) is a computational model
  capable of language generation or other natural language
  processing tasks. As language models, LLMs acquire these
  abilities by learning statistical relationships from vast
  amounts of text during a self-supervised and semi-supervised
  training process.
> Define what reasoning is to you.

Reasoning was the process I went through to formulate this response, doing so with intent to convey meaning as best as I can, and understand as best as possible the message to which I am replying.

> Then tell us why LLMs don't reason and why it matters.

LLM's do not possess the ability to perform the process detailed above.

This is why it matters.

0 - https://github.com/rasbt/LLMs-from-scratch

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_language_model

Re:Inductive or Deductive? Rethinking the Fundamental Reason... by viraptor on Monday September 02, 2024 @01:50AM (#41422932)
> Reasoning was the process I went through to ...

That's not a useful definition for judging whether LLMs reason or not. It's not something we can measure on an objective level and introduces another concept of intent which is just as vague as reasoning.

Specifically, an LLM can produce a similar message to what you posted. Everything else about that process is not defined well enough to differentiate you.

Re:Inductive or Deductive? Rethinking the Fundamental Reason... by Vampiero on Monday September 02, 2024 @03:27AM (#41423329)
Ok, that's cool, now ask GPT to solve any programming or logic problem at all and maybe you'll start to understand why you can reason and why it can't.
Re:Inductive or Deductive? Rethinking the Fundamental Reason... by viraptor on Monday September 02, 2024 @03:31AM (#41423353)
It can solve some problems and not others. But that would be again a different definition of reasoning, not what the parent wrote. And it would exclude animals/humans as reasoning, because they can't solve all logic problems.
Re:Inductive or Deductive? Rethinking the Fundamental Reason... by AdieuToLogic on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @11:25PM (#41441610)
> > Reasoning was the process I went through to ...

> That's not a useful definition for judging whether LLMs reason or not.

I formulated this portion of my post specifically to induce contemplation as to what it is when we, as humans, reason. My hope was that this exercise could provide perspective regarding the difference between our existence and really cool, emergent, novel mathematical algorithms.