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Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by fluoridation on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:04PM (#41403965)
I mean, it's basically inevitable, isn't it? Cultural heterogeneity is born out of isolation. If two groups of people are in constant contact, they'll never ever stop speaking the same language and having the same traditions. Conversely, if two originally distinct cultures start to interact regularly (even more so if closely) they'll eventually merge into one. People are more willing to give up on traditions and cultural norms than to have constant friction with their neighbors.
Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by akira2501 on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:16PM (#41404052)
> Cultural heterogeneity is born out of isolation.

What level of "isolation" forms that threshold though? We're nowhere near a single worldwide religion, for example, which is odd because it's the most existential of cultural beliefs.

Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by sgu999 on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:35PM (#41404186)
> We're nowhere near a single worldwide religion, for example, which is odd because it's the most existential of cultural beliefs.

We have neoliberalism, at least

Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by fluoridation on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:42PM (#41404234)
No level. It's a continuum. The more isolated, the faster the cultures will diverge.
Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by inglor_cz on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:59PM (#41404370)
At least in the West, we have a lot more secularism than ever before.
Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by davidsgk on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:21PM (#41404091)
> I mean, it's basically inevitable, isn't it? Cultural heterogeneity is born out of isolation.

When thinking about this cynically, I feel like this has some depressing ramifications. Cultural differences (and isolation) are often born from financial disparities as well. Does this mean that the path to global cultural homogeneity is basically just gentrification on a massive scale where economic -> cultural minorities get more and more ostracized?

Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by itishappy on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:36PM (#41404191)
Trickle down globalism. I think you're onto something.
Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by woodPurchase on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:26PM (#41404125)
>People are more willing to give up on traditions and cultural norms than to have constant friction with their neighbors

Toshi would tear down his local shrine and import the third world because it's better than having some Judeo-Christian reporters call them names?

The cultural and ethnic shifts happening are happening because banks, governments, and CEOs see it as being in their own interest. More working hands, more mouths to feed, more votes for their party. None of it has ever been natural and none of it is to our benefit

Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by fluoridation on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:31PM (#41404155)
>Toshi would tear down his local shrine and import the third world because it's better than having some Judeo-Christian reporters call them names?

He would have if those foreigners were similar in numbers to the Japanese, rather than being a minute minority.

Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by woodPurchase on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:37PM (#41404199)
If they were similar in numbers why would it be the Japanese ceding instead of the foreigners? Even if so, it's all the more reason to not let them in in the first place. Keep Japan Japanese for the Japanese
Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by fluoridation on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:48PM (#41404275)
It's not a battle, where one side decisively wins over the other. Both cultures cede a bit towards common ground.
Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by woodPurchase on Friday August 30, 2024 @05:05PM (#41404424)
I'm not going to say that's untrue, it obviously isn't. But friction, distance, and drift are going to work in the opposite direction

The result depends on the ratio. I don't see why we can't have trade and relations with other countries without also assimilating eachother

Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by fluoridation on Friday August 30, 2024 @05:25PM (#41404639)
I don't think trade and diplomatic relations is enough. Most people are neither international traders nor diplomats. You need constant cultural exchange by a large sections of the populations for the cultures to drift towards each other.
Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by im3w1l on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:32PM (#41404165)
It's not that simple. People in constant contact have in fact maintained separate cultures in some instances.

I think what makes it different this time is that we are using science to find the best culture. "How should we behave towards each other for the best possible outcome?" If a certain culture is clearly and demonstrably better, then that will lead to everyone adopting it.

Democracy might also be part of it, as in authoritarian states the person in power wield such a an outsized influence that their personal whims and fancies can turn into culture.

Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by inglor_cz on Friday August 30, 2024 @05:03PM (#41404403)
Even separate cultures have converged to a massive degree.

For example, most people in the world, nowadays, send their kids to school and use smartphones. And even though Putin, Xi and Western leaders may not be friends, they wear basically the same professional attire.

200 years ago, there would be much fewer common cultural traits.

Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by swatcoder on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:42PM (#41404238)
Millenia of stubbornly cosmopolitan cities suggests it's not so inevitable, as does all but the most modern history of Europe, India, and East Asia. These all reflect essentially distinct cultural communities in constant trade and travel for hundreds and hundreds of years. Contact alone isn't enough.

Homogenization doesn't seem to happen until either some sweeping administrative body insists on it, or (unique to modernity) a specific culture's media successfully and pervasively inserts itself between people and local/inherited traditions.

Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by fluoridation on Friday August 30, 2024 @04:58PM (#41404361)
>(unique to modernity) a specific culture's media successfully and pervasively inserts itself between people and local/inherited traditions.

So, when there's more cultural exchange and less isolation?

Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by swatcoder on Friday August 30, 2024 @05:08PM (#41404448)
I wouldn't call that inevitable, historically precedented, or an exchange. And I don't think the state of cultural interaction in any of those places was meaningfully more isolated before 20th century media arrived. So no.
Re:Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past (2023) by Jensson on Friday August 30, 2024 @10:27PM (#41406178)
> These all reflect essentially distinct cultural communities in constant trade and travel for hundreds and hundreds of years

Most people didn't leave their local area, the need for a unified language was extremely limited compared to modern society. Dialects developed because interaction was so low, so you could easily hear which part everyone came from, today all of that is evening out over time. Go a few hundred miles and people use different words even if it is the same language and people would have a hard time understanding each other.