News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by xigoi on Thursday August 29, 2024 @06:24AM (#41389247)
Ah. That’s really inappropriate for a technical document.
Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by srid on Thursday August 29, 2024 @10:09AM (#41391000)
Unnecessary politics in certain tech spheres is still a norm.

For example, here's GNOME the desktop being concerned about climate change:

https://discourse.gnome.org/t/question-to-candidates-the-boa...

Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by consteval on Thursday August 29, 2024 @10:48AM (#41391364)
Oh come on guys, this is silly. We're all gonna stop using a tool because they offhand mentioned something we don't agree with? I mean, these tools are developed by people - people have opinions.

I understand politics is very divisive, but why is everyone acting like a baby? Just move on. Who cares. Python is a language, who gives a fuck they included a poem about immigration? I'm convinced nobody even found this poem organically anyway, rather one person found it and then sent it around to all their like-minded friends so they can sit around and point and laugh and complain together. You're telling me y'all ACTUALLY found this webpage and scrolled through it organically? Come oooooon.

Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by bun_terminator on Thursday August 29, 2024 @12:11PM (#41392337)
Would you feel the same way if the message was "make America great again"?

And yes I did remove python from a big private repo and will argue against it at work when the question arises.

Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by thebigspacefuck on Thursday August 29, 2024 @03:57PM (#41394690)
What will you replace it with?
Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by bun_terminator on Thursday August 29, 2024 @11:41PM (#41397550)
in my case: c++

In the more general cases: No idea

Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by consteval on Thursday August 29, 2024 @03:58PM (#41394693)
> Would you feel the same way if the message was "make America great again"?

No, because as much as MAGA people will proclaim the ideologies don't have equal legitimacy. MAGA tried to perform a coup, are we forgetting this?

A poem about loving thy neighbor or some bullshit is not on the same level of political legitimacy as MAGA. It's not, and you know that. So why bullshit me?

> And yes I did remove python from a big private repo

Great for you. Personally, I think if this was the sole reason you removed Python that's pretty pathetic and you're someone I would consider overly emotional in decision making. But, if it sparks joy for you, then good.

For the record, Python is a shit language and good ecosystem with some okay-ish tools. I think removing python from your projects is probably a boon.

Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by zahlman on Thursday August 29, 2024 @12:35PM (#41392624)
> We're all gonna stop using a tool because they offhand mentioned something we don't agree with?

No. Well, I'm not, anyway - despite my skin in the game (https://zahlman.github.io/politics/the-psf/2024/07/31/an-ope...). But I am going to offer harsh criticism of those who abuse their platforms.

This sort of thing is nothing new in Python circles. It notably led to Jack Diederich's resignation from the PSF in June 2020 (https://discuss.python.org/t/the-psf-should-be-less-politica...) and may have contributed to the mass exodus of core devs in November 2020.

> why is everyone acting like a baby? Just move on. Who cares. Python is a language, who gives a fuck

My understanding is that a higher standard of discourse is expected on HN.

Also, I rather suspect your tone would be different if you didn't happen to agree with the message. Please consider that such bias is not in keeping with the spirit of the free exchange of ideas or the core principles of open source.

> You're telling me y'all ACTUALLY found this webpage and scrolled through it organically?

Yes. This page is the official, primary means by which the Python team announces a new release of Python. That's kind of a big deal.

Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by consteval on Thursday August 29, 2024 @05:47PM (#41395629)
> Also, I rather suspect your tone would be different if you didn't happen to agree with the message.

I don't agree with the message. I think changing master to main is neutral at best. At best. Once again, I'm just not a baby. Maybe that's not the discourse standard people are used to, but it is language I think we can all understand.

Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by xigoi on Thursday August 29, 2024 @01:10PM (#41393020)
A programming language is a tool. It should not have an official stance on political issues, whether you agree with it or not.
Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by consteval on Thursday August 29, 2024 @03:59PM (#41394712)
It doesn't have an official stance, you guys are just making assumptions and performing hyperbole for your own outrage.

Did they endorse the DNC and I missed it? No, they didn't. Seriously, again - come oooooon.

Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by zahlman on Thursday August 29, 2024 @06:21PM (#41395915)
>Did they endorse the DNC and I missed it?

They did endorse BLM (the organization, along with its very specific message which is not related to the business of writing code). You seem to have missed the link I previously fed you:

https://discuss.python.org/t/the-psf-should-be-less-politica...

Which was in reference to:

https://x.com/ThePSF/status/1267591714925133825

Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by anonfordays on Thursday August 29, 2024 @03:56PM (#41394670)
Oh come on guys, this is silly. We're all gonna stop using a tool because they offhand mentioned something we don't agree with? I mean, these tools are developed by people - people have opinions.

I understand politics is very divisive, but why is everyone acting like a baby? Just move on. Who cares. Python is a language, who gives a fuck they included a meme about it's OK to be White? I'm convinced nobody even found this meme organically anyway, rather one person found it and then sent it around to all their like-minded friends so they can sit around and point and laugh and complain together. You're telling me y'all ACTUALLY found this webpage and scrolled through it organically? Come oooooon.

Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by bun_terminator on Thursday August 29, 2024 @12:12PM (#41392348)
The spicy bit is that this is the first release that contained such a political message. And also the first one that is managed by the guy who started the mess of this post, too! Not exactly sure if he's the one who put it in there, but it's one heck of a coincidence.
Re:Guido van Rossum's Post Removed for Violating Python Comm... by fivestones on Sunday September 01, 2024 @11:07AM (#41417560)
It seems like the point is, you can see the same issue in very different ways. Did you read it from the bottom to the top? I was cringing until I got to the end and found the message to “Now read it bottom to top”. Still not saying it belongs in a technical document but it felt way less abrasive after reading it both directions.