News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How do you make safe, cheap nuclear reactors? Bury them a... by pydry on Wednesday August 28, 2024 @10:53AM (#41380220)
The soviets built some nuclear plants in the west - e.g. in Finland. That does make it inconsistent.

More to the point it's still a rather harebrained conspiracy theory with no evidence to support it.

Re:How do you make safe, cheap nuclear reactors? Bury them a... by philwelch on Wednesday August 28, 2024 @05:08PM (#41384393)
Finland wasn't in the West in the context of the Cold War; it was part of the "third world" that the West and the Soviets competed for influence over.
Re:How do you make safe, cheap nuclear reactors? Bury them a... by aguaviva on Wednesday August 28, 2024 @08:20PM (#41385862)
Finland was absolutely part of the West, despite its non-aligned status.

It was definitely not "third world", and you aren't even using the term correctly. As Wikipedia explains:

   In the Cold War, some European democracies (Austria, Finland, Ireland, Sweden, and Switzerland) were neutral in the sense of not joining NATO, but were prosperous, never joined the Non-Aligned Movement, and seldom self-identified as part of the Third World.
Re:How do you make safe, cheap nuclear reactors? Bury them a... by philwelch on Thursday August 29, 2024 @12:36AM (#41387357)
> Finland was absolutely part of the West, despite its non-aligned status.

You’re making a tedious semantic argument while conceding my central point, that Finland was non-aligned. I’ve heard of respectful disagreement but you’ve managed to pull off disrespectful agreement.

Re:How do you make safe, cheap nuclear reactors? Bury them a... by aguaviva on Thursday August 29, 2024 @08:55AM (#41390323)
The only point here is that, throughout the course of this thread - you've been consistently very sloppy both with basic geographic and historical facts, and in your core logic regarding this completely untenable theory about alleged Soviet influence that you've been holding onto.

And when people do fact-check you, you say they're making "tedious semantic arguments", or being disrespectful.

There's nothing disrespectful in their doing so, of course. They're just setting the record straight -- again, chiefly in regard to this nutty theory you've been promoting. If anything, they're doing you a favor.

Though I do agree that this discussion has gotten quite tedious.

Re:How do you make safe, cheap nuclear reactors? Bury them a... by philwelch on Thursday August 29, 2024 @10:10AM (#41391005)
You’re the one who’s been tediously nitpicking irrelevant points and attacking imaginary strawmen. For instance I never actually said that the Soviets supported antinuclear movements in the West by which, in the context of the Cold War, I obviously mean “the countries aligned with the United States and against the Soviet Union”, a set of countries that Finland was not, in fact, part of. It wouldn’t particularly surprise me if the Soviets backed those movements, because they backed a lot of similar movements, but I don’t have any particular evidence about the antinuclear movement in particular.

My point—which seems to be well-received since it’s up about 12 points—is that if the Soviets did, in fact, support these movements, it wouldn’t be inconsistent with their own use of nuclear power, or even their efforts to develop nuclear power in “non-aligned” countries in an attempt to curry political favor. Your attempts to claim otherwise are bizarre and incoherent, and none of your fact checks are factual or indeed even relevant to the topic at hand.

Re:How do you make safe, cheap nuclear reactors? Bury them a... by aguaviva on Thursday August 29, 2024 @11:11AM (#41391618)
When you said:

   The Western antinuclear movement had their own agency and motivations, but because they happened to align with Soviet interests
Which "interests" were you referring to, other than the interest of discouraging nuclear power development in the West?
Re:How do you make safe, cheap nuclear reactors? Bury them a... by philwelch on Thursday August 29, 2024 @08:10PM (#41396611)
You're conveniently quoting me out of context. That comment continued:

> they may have received material support from the Soviets. If they did....

It should be obvious that it would have served the interests of the Soviet Union if their geopolitical adversaries had less abundant energy and less practical expertise in nuclear technology. I make no claims about whether or not the Soviets attempted to advance these particular interests by interfering in the domestic politics of their adversaries, even though they did interfere in other ways to advance other interests.

Re:How do you make safe, cheap nuclear reactors? Bury them a... by aguaviva on Thursday August 29, 2024 @11:04PM (#41397409)
No, I quoted you properly + you chose not to answer my question, which in a way actually answers it.

I think we can leave it at that.

Re:How do you make safe, cheap nuclear reactors? Bury them a... by philwelch on Friday August 30, 2024 @01:00AM (#41397849)
> you chose not to answer my question

Your question was:

> Which "interests" were you referring to, other than the interest of discouraging nuclear power development in the West?

There is no “other than”. Discouraging nuclear power development in the West (by which in this context, I am reiterating because it was insufficiently clear earlier, I mean the countries aligned with the US and against the USSR during the Cold War) was the Soviet interest that would have been served by Soviet attempts to interfere in the domestic politics of Western countries (by which I mean “First World”, US-aligned countries, just so we are crystal clear on that point).

And I expanded on that point, actually:

> It should be obvious that it would have served the interests of the Soviet Union if their geopolitical adversaries had less abundant energy and less practical expertise in nuclear technology.

Why would you expect some other Soviet interest to be served? Perhaps you were confused by my use of the superficially plural term “interests”? In that case, please forgive the imprecision of my language. As I’ve explained, the Soviet interest in curbing the use of nuclear power in Western countries (by which, let me remind you, I mean countries that were Soviet adversaries) was multifaceted, but in common usage, when someone speaks of a country’s or a party’s “interests”, they are not necessarily thinking of some countable number of distinct points of interest.