News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app? by rafram on Sunday August 25, 2024 @08:10PM (#41352696)
That isn’t applicable here. Telegram isn’t encrypted and yet they refused to comply with subpoenas. Companies whose customer data is encrypted can truthfully say that they have no way to access it for law enforcement. Telegram can’t.

Maybe in the future, creators of encrypted messaging apps will get locked up. I certainly hope not. But this case doesn’t indicate anything one way or another.

Re:Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app? by mandmandam on Sunday August 25, 2024 @08:25PM (#41352748)
> Companies whose customer data is encrypted can truthfully say that they have no way to access it for law enforcement. Telegram can’t.

I dunno man, kinda seems like you ought to either have a right to privacy or not. Surely there's other ways to make a case, without extraordinarily abusable legal strong-arming.

Why should a wealthy person be able to legally afford encrypted communication on a secure device, when 90+% of people can't because they're poor and tech illiterate?

Does our historically unequal society need more information and rights asymmetry between rich and poor? Between privileged and marginalized?

Re:Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app? by rafram on Sunday August 25, 2024 @08:27PM (#41352759)
Downloading Signal is just as easy as downloading Telegram.
Re:Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app? by mandmandam on Sunday August 25, 2024 @08:31PM (#41352788)
As I said, tech illiterate - or as likely, legally illiterate.

It's unreasonable to expect most people to intuit the distinction you describe.

However, you don't see wealthy people communicating on insecure devices, because they have people to take care of that stuff.

Re:Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app? by SpicyLemonZest on Sunday August 25, 2024 @08:40PM (#41352847)
I'm really not sure what you're referring to. You see lots of wealthy people communicate on insecure devices, and it's quite common for law enforcement to demand and obtain the contents of their communications. "Look at these terrible messages we subpoenaed" is a staple of white collar criminal prosecutions.
Re:Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app? by mandmandam on Sunday August 25, 2024 @08:47PM (#41352898)
* White-collar crimes are estimated to make up only 3% of federal prosecutions.

* White-collar crime prosecutions decreased 53.5% from 2011 to 2021.

* Annual losses from white-collar crimes as of 2021 are anywhere from $426 billion to $1.7 trillion. The wide range here is due to the lack of prosecutions.

* There were 4,180 white-collar prosecutions in 2022.

* It’s estimated that up to 90% of white-collar crimes go unreported.

Etc.

- https://www.zippia.com/advice/white-collar-crime-statistics/

***

Responding by edit due to rate limit:

Guys the connection is clear if you think about it.

High-net-worth individuals use encrypted messaging apps more than the general population, without doubt.

They also have far more resources and abilities to fight a subpoena. It's all distinctively unfair and highly misleading to normal people; for very little real reason and with great potential for abuse.

Re:Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app? by hollerith on Sunday August 25, 2024 @08:51PM (#41352921)
Most prisoners in the US though are state prisoners (i.e., convicted by a state court) not federal prisoners (by a large margin I think). Lots of people are convicted in a state court for example of showing up at a bank branch with fake id and trying to cash a check. I gather that would be considered a white-collar crime?
Re:Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app? by rafram on Sunday August 25, 2024 @08:58PM (#41352951)
You change the subject in each comment and it’s not clear how any of this relates to Telegram.
Re:Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app? by SpicyLemonZest on Sunday August 25, 2024 @08:56PM (#41352945)
I don't understand the connection between these statistics and your claim that wealthy people don't use insecure messaging apps.