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Re:Open Source AI Is the Path Forward by lolinder on Tuesday July 23, 2024 @12:06PM (#41047554)
Source versus weights seems like a really pedantic distinction to make. As you say, the training code and training data would be worthless to anyone who doesn't have compute on the level that Meta does. Arguably, the weights are source code interpreted by an inference engine, and realistically it's the weights that someone is going to want to modify through fine-tuning, not the original training code and data.

The far more important distinction is "open" versus "not open", and I disagree that we should cede that distinction while trying to fight for "source". The Llama license is restrictive in a number of ways (it incorporates an entire acceptable use policy) that make it most definitely not "open" in the customary sense.

Re:Open Source AI Is the Path Forward by mvkel on Tuesday July 23, 2024 @12:40PM (#41048052)
> training code and training data would be worthless to anyone who doesn't have compute on the level that Meta does

I don't fully agree.

Isn't that like saying *nix being open source is worthless unless you're planning to ship your own Linux distro?

Knowing how the sausage is made is important if you're an animal rights activist.

Re:Open Source AI Is the Path Forward by JamesBarney on Tuesday July 23, 2024 @01:15PM (#41048489)
https://llama.meta.com/llama3_1/use-policy/

The acceptable use policy is seems fine. Don't use it to break the law, solicit sex, kill people, or lie.

Re:Open Source AI Is the Path Forward by lolinder on Tuesday July 23, 2024 @02:12PM (#41049066)
It's fine in that I'm happy to use it and don't think I'll be breaking the terms anytime soon. It's not fine in that one of the primary things that makes open source open is that an open source license doesn't restrict groups of people or whole fields from usage of the software. The policy has a number of such blanket bans on industries, which, while reasonable, make the license not truly open.
Re:Open Source AI Is the Path Forward by mvkel on Tuesday July 23, 2024 @07:30PM (#41052116)
This is like saying "You have the right to privacy. The police can tap your phone, but you have nothing to worry about as long as you're not breaking the law."

"we're open source, you can use it for anything you can imagine. But you can't use it for these specific things."

Then there's the added rub of the source not really being source code, but a CSV file.

That's fine. If you want to set that expectation, great! But don't call it open source.

Re:Open Source AI Is the Path Forward by frabcus on Wednesday July 24, 2024 @02:26AM (#41054147)
Meta could change the license of future releases of Llama and kill your business built on it.

If the training data was openly available, even if you can't afford to res train a new version, a competitor like Amazon could do it for you

Re:Open Source AI Is the Path Forward by lolinder on Wednesday July 24, 2024 @09:36AM (#41056978)
> Meta could change the license of future releases of Llama and kill your business built on it.

If you built a business on Llama 3.1, you're not going to suddenly go down in flames because you can't upgrade to Llama 4.

Even saying you really needed to upgrade, Llama 4 would be a new model that you'd have to adapt your prompts for anyway, you can't just version bump and call it good. If you're going to update prompts anyway, at that point you can just switch to any other competitor model. Updating models isn't urgent, you have time to do it slowly and right.

> If the training data was openly available, even if you can't afford to res train a new version, a competitor like Amazon could do it for you

If Llama 4 changed the license then presumably you wouldn't have access to its training data even if you did have access to Llama 3.1's. So now you have access to Llama 3.1's training data... now what? You want to recreate the Llama 3.1 weights in response to the Llama 4 release?