10% of Cubans have left Cuba in the last year

Re:10% of Cubans have left Cuba in the last year by krapp on Saturday July 20, 2024 @07:15PM (#41020932)

>What if some highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties.

That should be perfectly acceptable and within the bounds of free speech in a democratic society. It's up to you to counter "bad speech" with other speech in the marketplace of ideas. At least that's what I'm told when I complain about all of the American racists and lunatics whose speech I'm supposed to hold sacred, while they try to undermine my rights and values.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:10% of Cubans have left Cuba in the last year by hnpolicestate on Saturday July 20, 2024 @07:53PM (#41021219)

You inserted their speech where I said "capital and ability". Because you support undermining those rights so you play semantic games.

I mean this sincerely, isn't the debate irrelevant? You either support those civil rights or oppose them. I don't want to put words in your mouth but I assume you oppose 1A and 2A. Why not just say it? We wouldn't have to waste time discussing ancillary nonsense.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:10% of Cubans have left Cuba in the last year by krapp on Saturday July 20, 2024 @08:00PM (#41021262)

>You inserted their speech where I said "capital and ability". Because you support undermining those rights so you play semantic games.

I never said I supported undermining any particular rights. The phrase "use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties" implies engagement in the political process, which implies free speech, which (notwithstanding your semantic games) is already established as legitimate.

>I don't want to put words in your mouth

Yes you do, your comment here does so numerous times. So feel free to argue with the strawman, I'm out.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:10% of Cubans have left Cuba in the last year by hnpolicestate on Saturday July 20, 2024 @08:03PM (#41021290)

Okay, sorry.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:10% of Cubans have left Cuba in the last year by anon291 on Sunday July 21, 2024 @12:47AM (#41022444)

It should be within the bounds of speech for people part of our society already

Not for people were considering allowing to join our society

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:10% of Cubans have left Cuba in the last year by krapp on Sunday July 21, 2024 @07:12AM (#41024214)

Immigrants don't need "our" permission to join "our" society, they only need the permission of the government, as a matter of legal formality. And of course one could argue that "illegal immigrants" are a part of society, just not legally, because societies aren't only defined in the context of states.

Also free speech is a universal value, is it not? It should apply equally to everyone, everywhere, all the time, and in all contexts.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:10% of Cubans have left Cuba in the last year by anon291 on Sunday July 21, 2024 @03:05PM (#41027316)

Free speech is a universal human value but realistically America is in a league of its own with what speech it allows.

[ Parent | on HN ]