News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by Draiken on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @07:13AM (#40786996)
Does it really matter?

We argue semantics around incidents like this when it comes down to: people doing bad stuff and trying to hide it.

If anything, these laws are completely broken. People should never be punished for exposing bad actors, period. Imagine if that ever happened. Maybe governments and companies would think twice before acting illegally/immorally.

Governments do not want these incidents to happen because they want to keep doing it in secrecy and they enact laws to make uncovering these schemes illegal. Arguing if that's illegal or not is missing the whole point. It will never be legal in a corrupt society like ours.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by jml78 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @07:24AM (#40787097)
My issue is that he was influenced by Russia. Aka they threatened his life and he then proceeded to leak information about the US but keep Russian secrets.

I mean I don’t blame him for not wanting to be murdered by Russia but he isn’t a freedom fighter when he only leaks things for countries that don’t directly threaten his life.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by itsoktocry on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @08:00AM (#40787418)
>he was influenced by Russia

This argument is completely nonsensical, this idea that who revealed the crime matters more than the actual crime.

What does it matter who "influenced" him, if the information was legit? And is it your opinion that none of this information should be released unless it covers all countries equally? Do you honestly think he should have thought, I can't reveal this crime until I find an equal Russian crime, for equality. What a wonderful, open world that would be! Utterly ridiculous.

This is the same stupidity as "Hunter's laptop". It allows the Idiocracy to dismiss anything because "the Russians!".

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by lisper on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @08:10AM (#40787515)
> What does it matter who "influenced" him

Because they may have influenced the timing and content of the leaks to further their own ends. Revealing sensitive information is not a neutral act. It has consequences far beyond the exposure of bad actors.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by gorlilla on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @08:17AM (#40787589)
Again, the fundamental argument is that the bad actors still had time, chance and opportunity to own and be accountable for the misdeeds but chose to hide them instead. Any ability to influence the timing of the release is still a direct consequence of their underlying malfeasance.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by lisper on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @08:50AM (#40787949)
I don't dispute that. But just because it is good to expose bad actors does not mean that any mode of exposing bad actors is an unalloyed good. The exposure of bad actors can (and usually does) have ancillary effects, and those ancillary effects can be bad. They can in some cases be bad enough that they are arguably worse than the original malfeasance of the exposed bad actors. Assange's release of Clinton's emails, for example, may well have swung the 2016 election in Trump's favor, but it would be a stretch to claim that the emails contained evidence of bad acts that merited this outcome.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by phone8675309 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @09:54AM (#40788663)
Because the US has never used the timing or content of leaks to further their own ends.

Grow up.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by causi on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @10:51AM (#40789370)
Then maybe you shouldn't commit atrocities that can then be used against you. I already know the government of Russia is evil. They're not accountable to me. The American government, ostensibly, is. I want every single evil act they ever willingly partake in exposed with the maximum possible impact, because that's my tax dollars being used to murder people.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by vlovich123 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @11:45AM (#40790015)
This “my tax dollars” argument is so facile. Does this mean then that your employer gets to control your actions because it’s their dollars funding your actions? The money changed hands - it’s the governments.

The underlying principle is the rule of law and the Constitution codifies the powers of the government with legislation codifying more details. That’s why the government is accountable to you, not because of your tax dollars. If you are a citizen who doesn’t need to pay any taxes, the government should be as equally accountable to you as to the very wealthy because of the rule of law and everyone being equal to it.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by causi on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @12:51PM (#40790750)
Does this mean then that your employer gets to control your actions because it’s their dollars funding your actions?

...yes. That's what a job is. There are also off-duty codes of conduct employees must adhere to.

That’s why the government is accountable to you, not because of your tax dollars.

I didn't say my taxes are why they're accountable. I said my taxes are why I want any and all evil actions taken by them exposed.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by vlovich123 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:40PM (#40791269)
You should want transparency as a matter of the rule of law - you can’t know what laws are broken or what changes to the law need to be made if there isn’t transparency.

Again, we’re aligned on that. But the “ma taxes” argument is facile because for nearly 100 years there wasn’t even income tax so it was secondary taxes through purchases or tariffs. As for off duty codes, there usually aren’t any meaningful ones and they generally are very constrained by the legal system (eg they can’t punish you for political activity). It’s the same reason someone standing up to a politician and screaming “my taxes fund your salary” is blatantly incorrect. The economy is a circular dependent system. For example, government tax dollars pay corporations which then pay your salary which you then get taxed on. You’re over privileging your personal role in the economic system when you make this argument and then the next follow up argument is “well I pay more taxes than you so I should get more of a say than you in how government is run”. It’s a flawed premise that leads to all sorts of directly harmful lines of reasoning. Just argue that we’re a country based on the rule of law and no one is above that. That’s literally the founding principle of the country.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by causi on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:44PM (#40791331)
Again, I am not and have not said my taxes are the reason I do or should have a say over the behavior of the government. I'm saying my taxes are my personal connection to the actions of the government, that they are why I care, nothing else. The taxes are my emotional motivation to assert my Constitutional rights.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by vlovich123 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:23PM (#40791791)
Your personal connection is the society you, your family, and your friends live in and voting in said democracy and participating to protect it. I’m not sure connecting money to emotions is a healthy endeavor.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by causi on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @03:08PM (#40792314)
Money is a proxy for life and time. If my money is used to hurt someone, that means the product of my time and my effort was used to hurt someone. That makes me angry.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by vlovich123 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @05:54PM (#40794113)
It’s a tool. It’s an important tool no doubt. Perhaps the most important tool in our lives. And you have to know how to wield it appropriately. But do not mistake a tool that enables you to survive for the life itself. Would you get angry if someone used your hammer to kill someone? Or an even more representative analogy, you gave it away to someone, they gave it away to someone, & then that person used the hammer to kill someone. Would you be angry that it was “your” hammer? If yes, how do you define possession? If not, then consider that the hammer and money isn’t all that different here.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by causi on Wednesday June 26, 2024 @08:32AM (#40799249)
Yes, if I gifted someone a gun and they used it to murder someone I would be angry and feel guilty.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by vlovich123 on Wednesday June 26, 2024 @11:34AM (#40801222)
Nope, in this scenario you gifted a gun and then they sold it to someone who murdered someone. Because that’s what’s happening (ignoring that gifting is a poor analogy). You “gift” your taxes to the government who then pools your “gift” with all other “gifts” from people and businesses and other revenue streams and then “regifts” that to individual people that work for the government that then do the thing. In fact, your personal contribution to any single person’s salary is basically less than a penny. That’s a lot of guilt for a penny.

For consistency, you should then feel guilty that criminals use the roads we’ve built. After all that was government dollars used to create jobs infrastructure that murderers use to travel to kill their victim and to escape justice. And what about guns in the first place. Government tax dollars go to sustaining those gun manufacturers in the first place, otherwise we wouldn’t have guns for our military. Those guns are then used for murder and all sorts of bad things. And heck, the internet was created through government funding and many big tech companies make a lot of money from the government and that’s got a lot of crime and victimization that happens. So you should feel guilty about that too.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by Draiken on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @07:41AM (#40787242)
I agree with you on that. I dislike the partisanship that was demonstrated (even if coerced).

However, for me, personal feelings about him should not matter in this case. It's a question of how our society treats people that expose bad actors. He's a flawed human being like every other one, but what he did was not wrong even if deemed illegal (by the justice system from the exposed party, who would've guessed).

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by beeboobaa3 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @08:41AM (#40787856)
So he's a victim of horrible abuse. Why are you blaming him?
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by CaptWillard on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @08:51AM (#40787955)
I really don't want my government acting like my ex-girlfriend.

When presented with evidence of her infidelity, her first and only reaction, "Who sent you those screenshots?! It was Sarah, wasn't it? You know she hates me. Why are you talking to her?!"

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by josefresco on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @11:15AM (#40789692)
A better analogy would be if one of your friends had dirt on your whole friend group. One of those people then (allegedly) threatens your friend, and as a result they release information to harm everyone BUT the one who threatened them. "Sarah's" information might be accurate, but her choosing what information to reveal makes her actions suspicious.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by hiccuphippo on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @12:06PM (#40790252)
If anything, Sarah is a victim too.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by CaptWillard on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:42PM (#40791302)
This "fairness" angle (if true) is such an embarrassing reach.

IDGAF if Russia and China do the same things. I ASSUME they do them.

The west enjoys the "free world" moniker and the distinction it implies. It should be held to an accordingly higher standard.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by iamthirsty on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @12:06PM (#40790250)
The good 'ol gas-lighting. Nice.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by qzx_pierri on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @09:13AM (#40788187)
The relentless "Russia bad!" parroting is very exhausting. Not saying it couldn't be true, but it just seems like such a low effort copout for anything that seems to be rooted in malevolence in 2024. Every single topic seems to be aimed at Russia on reddit and HN.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by rubytubido on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @09:35AM (#40788462)
> on reddit

Agree with it, I want to read news about different countries, but it looks like the people\bots are obsessed with Russia on reddit.

Also it's interesting to see how people react to the same news about civilian deaths. People are happy when Russian civilians die. I with these forums had a feature to hide/swap country names in a news/posts so people can realize how evil they are.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by CRConrad on Thursday June 27, 2024 @08:44AM (#40809878)
> The relentless "Russia bad!" parroting is very exhausting.

You know what's even more exhausting? Russia being so bad.

Also, whining about 'relentless "Russia bad!" parroting'.

The way to end the "parroting" is for Russia to stop being bad.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by raxxorraxor on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @10:21AM (#40789003)
Plainly said, the Russia story was mostly for gullible people to be distracted from the failings and sins of their own government.

Not saying Russia doesn't engage in propaganda attempts, but they are more or less irrelevant for any domestic discussion then and now.