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Re:Never* Use Datagrams by iainmerrick on Sunday June 23, 2024 @08:45AM (#40767067)
Is it really that unfortunate? What’s the big downside?

There’s a bit of reinvention needed, sure, but adding a framing layer is about the easiest task in networking. If you want a standard way of doing it, these days you can use a WebSocket.

Edit to add: oh, I see, you want reliable but unordered messages. That would definitely be useful sometimes, but other times you do want ordering. If you don’t need ordering, isn’t that pretty much what QUIC does?

Re:Never* Use Datagrams by p_l on Sunday June 23, 2024 @08:51AM (#40767112)
SCTP did both reliable/unreliable and ordered/unordered, with QUIC arguably being at least a bit inspired by it, but going over UDP because internet is broken.

EDIT: Internet being broken is also why there's a grease extension for QUIC

Re:Never* Use Datagrams by taneq on Sunday June 23, 2024 @09:55AM (#40767493)
What would ‘reliable but unordered’ even mean? What’s the difference between a dropped message and one that’s just late?
Re:Never* Use Datagrams by saurik on Sunday June 23, 2024 @10:05AM (#40767550)
The difference is whether you get to process the ones which came after first or you must wait for the retransmission of the earlier ones. FWIW, SCTP provides for this difference.