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Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by jimmaswell on Monday June 17, 2024 @02:16PM (#40709081)
Adobe software isn't quite "good" in my experience. The company is an Oracle: all-in on giving the right bullet points to pointy-haired managers but with a palpable paucity of technical merit.

I have to work with Adobe Experience Manager and it's a weird, painful, slow/inefficient kludge, not to even get into the licensing terms and what devs are "allowed" to do on their own servers.

Acrobat Reader stands out in my memory only as that extremely slow, bloated thing you launched by accident, then closed 5 minutes later once it loaded to use Sumatara instead.

They killed Flash by neglect after buying it from Macromedia - we might still have it around if they invested in it properly and made it up to par for the iPod. Thankfully we finally have good emulators that work in the browser to see the vast amount of old Flash content.

Creative Suite is fine and mostly functional from what I hear, but they didn't make that codebase either, and I've never felt limited by free or cheaper alternatives like GIMP or Sony Vegas. (I find it baffling how people rag on GIMP - I use it in a professional and personal capacity and I love it, and I'm familiar enough with Photoshop to compare it.)

Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by tombert on Monday June 17, 2024 @02:28PM (#40709228)
I don't think Vegas has been Sony for quite awhile has it?

Vegas is great, but as far as I'm aware there's not really a way to get it running on Mac, and I don't own a Windows computer anymore (I still will VM it if I really need it). For my video stuff I've been using Final Cut Pro and Apple Motion for the last couple years since it's a one-time purchase and I think pretty good. I'd like to use Premiere and After Effects but, as stated, I don't want to pay for subscriptions.

I don't know enough about photo editing to say if GIMP sucks, I've used it before and it seems fine.

Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by FuriouslyAdrift on Monday June 17, 2024 @04:10PM (#40710492)
It's Vegas Creative (MAGIX), now... https://www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/vegas-pro/
Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by tombert on Monday June 17, 2024 @04:27PM (#40710674)
Yeah I looked it up shortly after posting that comment.

I wish they'd release a Mac version, because that was actually my favorite video editor on Windows. It would be really great if they made a Linux version but I'm not holding my breath for that.

Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by 0cf8612b2e1e on Monday June 17, 2024 @04:40PM (#40710804)
Surely Apple bears a ton of responsibility for killing Flash. That was the beginning of their mobile walled garden.
Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by tombert on Monday June 17, 2024 @04:52PM (#40710916)
I know that there were almost certainly patent issues and the like that made this difficult, but I firmly believe that if Adobe had open-sourced the Flash player, then Flash would still be as big or bigger today.

If it were opened up, it could have been integrated directly into browsers and maybe even the web standards. The Flash desktop program would still probably be the de facto means of creating Flash content but at that point it could have conceivably still been on iPhone, at least eventually.

It's easy to blame Apple for this stuff, but fundamentally Steve Jobs' complaints were fair and I think it was a matter of "when", not "if" Flash was going to die.

The death of Flash kind of makes me sad. A lot of HTML5 stuff feels like it's playing this huge game of catchup from what we had in Flash in 2004, and I still think that Flash was one of the most fun development platforms ever; the ease of quickly going from "drawing" to "animation" to "code" was so streamlined and as a teenager I had a lot of fun with it, and I haven't found a tool since then that I've had as much fun playing with.

Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by galangalalgol on Monday June 17, 2024 @07:43PM (#40712540)
The ruffle.rs project has most of newgrounds back up running flash inside a wasm runtime. Is there any reason we can't all use the same old development tools in a vm to create more new flash content?
Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by tombert on Monday June 17, 2024 @08:11PM (#40712699)
I don't see why you couldn't, other than getting hands on legitimate versions of Flash that still have ActionScript support.
Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by 0cf8612b2e1e on Monday June 17, 2024 @06:39PM (#40711979)

  It's easy to blame Apple for this stuff, but fundamentally Steve Jobs' complaints were fair and I think it was a matter of "when", not "if" Flash was going to die.
I just do not believe it. It was the best available rich presentation/interaction game in town. Trivial to get started and no need for a platform to sign off on your work.

No doubt there was a never ending litany of security problems, but if Flash had been available at the birth of smartphones, I suspect it would have flourished. Or even led to a competitor targeting the same space with better characteristics.

Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by tombert on Monday June 17, 2024 @06:49PM (#40712073)
There were performance issues too, and it was pretty bad on Android phones, at least when I used it in 2012.

I think it might have been able to live on in the form of Adobe AIR if Adobe hadn't given up on it. I think AIR could have occupied the space that Electron does now.

Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by 0cf8612b2e1e on Monday June 17, 2024 @07:09PM (#40712240)
Totally. I still think that more development can cover a lot of sins. Look at JavaScript. It started for changing text colors or something. Now it is one of the fastest interpreted runtimes.

Years of incremental improvements on this bustling platform could have made Flash into a performant beast.

Anyway, we will never know what could have been if Flash had been a mobile option on day one.

Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by vr46 on Monday June 17, 2024 @05:37PM (#40711349)
Kindof, but there was a ton of work done on ActionScript 3 making it all ECMA (?) compliant and there was a heck of a lot of road left on that. It was TypeScript before there was modern Javascript. And that could have been parlayed into a different runtime, like Haxe did. Flash the runtime had many problems, but the IDE and tools behind them were mature and well-understood.
Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by tombert on Monday June 17, 2024 @05:47PM (#40711451)
AS3 is a pretty underrated language. It was ridiculously fun to make stuff with it, and if you bought the official Flash Builder IDE (which was Eclipse based), you had decent autocomplete and everything.

The runtime definitely needed to be improved, but I feel Flash gets a bit more hate than it deserves. By the tail end, there was even decent 3D graphics support, and CrossBridge was a pretty cool predecessor to Emscripten that allowed you to convert C++ programs into SWF stuff (IIRC an early version had the Doom engine ported over).

Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by vr46 on Tuesday June 18, 2024 @03:00AM (#40714851)
I couldn't agree more. AS3 was my gateway drug into static typing, IDEs, all manner of things. I did have Flex/FDT at one client, but after that I ended up using Flash Develop because it was so good, even if it was Windows.

Having first MTASC and then the as3 compiler on the command line was another route into modern-day build pipelines. The 3D engines were great, Box2D port was great, and looking at it all now in 2024, the APIs still hold up and Adobe could restart an entire multimedia division with it.

Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by scarface_74 on Monday June 17, 2024 @11:07PM (#40713712)
This is what actually happened

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40713706

Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by simondotau on Tuesday June 18, 2024 @01:24AM (#40714309)
> Apple bears a ton of responsibility for killing Flash.

Correct, and that might have been the single greatest gift Apple has bestowed upon the open Internet. Flash was the walled garden of the web — closed source, proprietary and a perennial security nightmare — and the community owes Apple a huge debt for gratitude for hastening its demise.

I know some people have fond memories of flash games, flash art and, in some instances, Flash websites. I do appreciate that it was a cultural moment. I do appreciate that it was accessible to novices and artists in a way that HTML5 is not. But the web is not, and should never have been, reliant on a closed source proprietary platform.

Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by b3ing on Monday June 17, 2024 @05:33PM (#40711313)
Adobe has let pretty much all of the Macromedia stuff fade out

Sure Apple is to blame partially for Flash, but even now they rarely add new features to "Animate". There are other applications out there that are doing more interesting things.

Dreamweaver has been outdone by visual studio code and sublimetext, granted it was really only good for ColdFusion.

Fireworks was left to die, oddly enough it could of been the next Sketch, although Figma probably would of beaten it eventually anyway

Freehand was killed to let Illustrator be dominant

Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by scarface_74 on Monday June 17, 2024 @11:06PM (#40713706)
The truth is that Adobe said they could get Flash running on the first gen iPhone with 128MB of RAM and a 400Mhz processor.

Safari barely ran on the first gen iPhone. If you scrolled too fast, it would display a checkerbox while the rendering caught up. It didn’t even have enough memory to have a background image on your Home Screen.

When Flash finally came to mobile in 2010 on Android, it required 1Gb RAM and 1Ghz processor and it barely ran. I had an HTC that met those specs. The first iPhone that met those specs didn’t come out until 2011.

Adobe was always over promising and under delivering on Flash for mobile to the point where the Motorola tablet that advertised flash support didn’t ship with it and embarrassingly enough, you couldn’t even view the Xoom’s home page on the web with the tablet because it required Flash.

Re:FTC sues Adobe for hiding fees and inhibiting cancellations by zsims on Tuesday June 18, 2024 @03:02AM (#40714865)
Blame for Flash? Or celebrated for killing Flash?

Flash was a security nightmare