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Re:Taboos and Self-Censorship Among U.S. Psychology Professors by delichon on Thursday June 13, 2024 @07:45AM (#40668418)
> 1. β€œThe tendency to engage in sexually coercive behavior likely evolved because it conferred some evolutionary advantages on men who engaged in such behavior.”

I once tried to have a discussion about whether opposable thumbs were partly successful because they make survivable rape easier. It didn't go well. We never did make it to the merits or demerits of the actual argument.

Re:Taboos and Self-Censorship Among U.S. Psychology Professors by snapcaster on Thursday June 13, 2024 @08:14AM (#40668702)
So you see the main benefit of thumbs is rape? that's honestly insane and I might offer some advice to keep that thought to yourself because you will be judged harshly for it
Re:Taboos and Self-Censorship Among U.S. Psychology Professors by delichon on Thursday June 13, 2024 @08:19AM (#40668733)
How did you get from "partly successful because" to "the main benefit of thumbs"? How did you get from "tried to have a discussion" to "you see the main benefit"?

I think those leaps underline how taboo the topic is.

Re:Taboos and Self-Censorship Among U.S. Psychology Professors by gipp on Thursday June 13, 2024 @08:34AM (#40668889)
Let's put it this way. Opposable thumbs are such a massive fitness advantage, in so many ways that are obviously massively more impactful, that such a factor, if it even exists, would be utterly negligible.

So the only conceivable reasons to raise such a bizarre topic all involve you being a very unpleasant person to converse with -- the most generous I can think of being an unearned sense of intellectual superiority simply by the fact of raising an idea you see as taboo.

Re:Taboos and Self-Censorship Among U.S. Psychology Professors by delichon on Thursday June 13, 2024 @08:41AM (#40668954)
If you don't like discussing weird ideas or ideas that are unpopular or devil's advocacy, you would most probably find it unpleasant to converse with me. If you prefer glibly dismissing such ideas it would probably be mutual.
Re:Taboos and Self-Censorship Among U.S. Psychology Professors by snapcaster on Thursday June 13, 2024 @08:51AM (#40669030)
What are you hoping to achieve? Convince people thumbs are great rape tools? You act like glib dismissal is inappropriate as if you have some great insight to share. You do sound very unpleasant to talk to so at least you're self aware.
Re:Taboos and Self-Censorship Among U.S. Psychology Professors by delichon on Thursday June 13, 2024 @11:13AM (#40670693)
The extent to which aggression differences between sexes is the result of nature or nurture seems to have policy implications. For instance it would change the balance between the effectiveness of re-training versus more physical interventions. If men indeed have a hard-wired tendency toward sexual violence, it gives cultural interventions a lower return on investment and incarceration a relatively higher one.

For instance there has recently been a lot of controversy around the claim by J.K. Rowling that studies show that transgender males have the same rates of sexual predation as other males. Understanding of the balance of biological versus social influence informs that debate.

To improve our selves we must know our selves.

Re:Taboos and Self-Censorship Among U.S. Psychology Professors by hoool on Thursday June 13, 2024 @06:55PM (#40675795)
> For instance there has recently been a lot of controversy around the claim by J.K. Rowling that studies show that transgender males have the same rates of sexual predation as other males.

It's quite odd that this is even controversial. Like why should this one subset of males differ in this way from the rest?

If anything, one might expect them to be even more predatory than other males, given how little regard they have for women's boundaries.

Re:Taboos and Self-Censorship Among U.S. Psychology Professors by pjc50 on Thursday June 13, 2024 @07:58AM (#40668552)
I'm not really surprised that got an immediate "what the fuck" from your interlocutor.
Re:Taboos and Self-Censorship Among U.S. Psychology Professors by gipp on Thursday June 13, 2024 @08:29AM (#40668828)
Yeah, it's not like the utility of opposable thumbs is exactly a mystery
Re:Taboos and Self-Censorship Among U.S. Psychology Professors by delichon on Thursday June 13, 2024 @01:03PM (#40672059)
Is the fitness value of grasping tools greater than that of grasping wrists? I don't know. Is either behavior an exaptation of the other? I don't know. Does rape and slavery precede or follow tool use? I don't know. Either way the answers don't seem trivial. We may descend from tool users who also rape and enslave, or rapist slavers who also use tools. Understanding more of that should inform our social engineering.
Re:Taboos and Self-Censorship Among U.S. Psychology Professors by ithkuil on Thursday June 13, 2024 @03:54PM (#40673906)
There is nothing wrong to say WTF and try to persuade the interlocutor that their idea is wrong. You can also argue that some ideas are not only wrong but if believed can lead to antisocial behaviors etc etc.

But unfortunately very often people don't have the patience to do this with a civil discussion and instead they cut the discussion short by just painting the interlocutor as somebody who must be a monster to even bring up such a topic in the first place.

And I understand why that's the case. Sometimes (often?) that's actually true. Sometimes we're just tired of bullshit flooding and rebuttal asymmetry.

But often I just think we're shutting down interesting explorations and we're ill-equipped as a society to have discussions which are truly hypothetical and neutral genuine devil-advocacy. Probably we're so much used to the abuse of those genuine techniques by people who just want to flood the scene with true bullshit.

Re:Taboos and Self-Censorship Among U.S. Psychology Professors by gruez on Thursday June 13, 2024 @08:22AM (#40668761)
>opposable thumbs were partly successful because they make survivable rape easier

????