Maybe leave the Hindus out of this. You might not have the full picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhang#Culture
Moreover there are many "degenerate behaviors" that we don't currently lock people up for. Like not washing hands after going to the bathroom, even after going #2. Does someone quietly consuming a plant without bothering anyone qualify as "degenerate"?
> It’s also illegal in India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, though we can debate how homogenous or not those countries are.
I didn't realize there was a debate at all. They're incredibly diverse countries.
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcotic_Drugs_and_Psychotropi...) cannabis was made illegal in India due to US pressure and international treaties. I didn't look up the history of cannabis legality for the other 2 countries.
I know you were trying to dispute GP's assertion that cannabis was made illegal in the US as a way to selectively prosecute minorities by pointing out how it's illegal worldwide. The example above might show you how both could be true. (Btw I have no idea if racism is the reason cannabis became illegal in the US, or whether it was just a regular moral panic)
> I know you were trying to dispute GP's assertion that cannabis was made illegal in the US as a way to selectively prosecute minorities by pointing out how it's illegal worldwide. The example above might show you how both could be true.
But your link suggests that the first point is not true. It categorizes countries into groups based on their positions in the treaty. But the anti-drug groups included many countries besides the US:
“Manufacturing states group: This group included primarily Western industrialized nations, the key players being the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, Switzerland, the Netherlands, West Germany, and Japan. Having no cultural affinity for organic drug use and being faced with the effects of drug abuse on their citizens, they advocated stringent controls on the production of organic raw materials and on illicit trafficking.”
“Strict control group: These were essentially non-producing and non-manufacturing states with no direct economic stake in the drug trade. The key members were France, Sweden, Brazil, and the Republic of China. Most of the states in this group were culturally opposed to drug use and suffered from abuse problems.”
> Does someone quietly consuming a plant without bothering anyone qualify as "degenerate"?
Yes. For most people, marijuana makes them worse rather than better at fulfilling their social roles as parents, workers, etc. I’m sure there are exceptions, but I’ve never met one. (Like “functional alcoholics” y’all aren’t as functional as they want us to think.)
If a parent can have a glass of wine after the kids are in bed, why not an edible?
Workers' productivity is a performance management issue for employers, not something to be addressed with state violence.
I’m not conflating them, I’m comparing them. Based on my anecdotal observations, people have less command over their addictive behaviors (whether it’s alcohol or weed) than they think.
> If a parent can have a glass of wine after the kids are in bed, why not an edible?
Because people don’t have as much control over themselves as you want to believe. People would be better parents if nobody drank.
> Workers' productivity is a performance management issue for employers, not something to be addressed with state violence.
Worker productivity creates the resources available to take care of the community. That’s not any less true in a modern tax-funded welfare state than in a third world village. When half your income is going to the government, the government (which is just a proxy for the community) has a strong interest in people being productive.
All societies up until maybe 200 years ago for some, yesterday for others, also agreed that women were lesser. Pretty strong consensus there actually.
Sigh.
The same thing with gender roles. Social consensus 200 years ago probably reflects some cross-cutting aspect of the human experience, for example the fact that 200 years ago, when most people survived by doing back-breaking physical labor, the physical differences between men and women were much more salient in everyday life.
A societal practice or norm can still be worth dismantling, even if it does "reflect something about the human experience that cuts across completely different cultures".
Case in point- the historical bias against left-handed people. The fact that this irrational fear has been propagated by countries and cultures too numerous to count, from Taiwan to Malawi [1], does not make it more valid or worthy of propagation. It might just mean that all these cultures have similar flaws to address.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_against_left-handed_peopl...
Societies around the world, who have very different cultures and subscribe to very different religions, all seem to agree (or agreed until recently) that marijuana use is degenerate behavior. Socialist countries, capitalist countries, Hindus, Muslims, Christians, and the world’s largest atheist countries are on the same page. It’s actually quite a remarkable social consensus.