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Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by enraged_camel on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @10:41AM (#40211438)
>> I really hope he doesn’t wreck spaceX too.

I think SpaceX is one disaster away from suffering the same fate, to be honest. Like, if the next Starship doesn't make it as far as the previous attempt (for example, if it blows up on the way up), Elon is going to come in like a wrecking ball.

The pressure on the SpaceX team must be immense.

Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by bunderbunder on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @11:03AM (#40211766)
I gather that SpaceX, too, is cash flow negative and heavily invested in moonshot bets.

Meaning that, like for Elon's other companies, they might be in an incredibly vulnerable position, financially speaking. A disaster could sink the company. But simply failing to have some of these risky bets pay off could be just as damaging. For example, even if everything in the plan works on a technical level, if there isn't enough demand for Starlink's service to support the whole Starlink 2 project then that might turn the entire Starlink 2 project, including the Starship rocket they need to launch these larger satellites, into a big money loser.

Not entirely unlike how we're seeing signs that Tesla may not be a sustainable business, not necessarily because of anything fundamentally wrong with their core business, but because they made some over-aggressive assumptions about how many golden eggs their goose would lay.

Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by petre on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @03:45PM (#40215417)
> there isn't enough demand for Starlink's service to support the whole Starlink 2 project then that might turn the entire Starlink 2 project, including the Starship rocket they need to launch these larger satellites, into a big money loser

I'm wouldn't worry too much. Uncle Sam probably wants those capabilities anyway for the SDA to ramp up the NDSA now that the Russian nuclear threat is renewed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Development_Agency

Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by treme on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @10:46AM (#40211506)
you seem naive. SpaceX has made it to MI complex status, and US gov will easily bail them out should worst come.
Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by funac on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @10:53AM (#40211617)
> SpaceX has made it to MI complex status, and US gov will easily bail them out should worst come.

immaterial: "the worst" here is elon destroying the engineering culture & with it their ability to keep improving on what they've done so far. not going bankrupt (by way of a bailout or otherwise) is a necessary condition for avoiding the worst (boeing syndrome), but it's not sufficient

fedgov can pour money into the military industrial complex, but it can't do a whole lot more, and that only goes so far

Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by mjhay on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @10:54AM (#40211657)
Boeing destroyed its engineering culture and it isn't going anywhere.
Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by bunderbunder on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @12:25PM (#40212800)
Suppose for the sake of argument I managed to secure some sort of annuity that pays just enough to subsist on, starting now.

Knowing that I'm guaranteed enough income to stay minimally solvent does not mean I have no reason to care about losing additional income streams that enable me to have things like vacations and dinners at nice restaurants and digital watches.

Similarly, the relative security of the ~1/3 of Boeing's revenue that comes from government contracts is probably small consolation to its shareholders. They do that business more-or-less at cost; essentially 100% of their profits come from other sources.

Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by htrp on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @04:20PM (#40215809)
>They do that business more-or-less at cost;

Aren't all govt contracts cost plus?

Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by lesuorac on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @05:03PM (#40216307)
Developmental contracts sure.

Buying COTS products; probably not.

Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by bunderbunder on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @05:18PM (#40216474)
Also, the "plus" part covers both overhead and profit. So, depending on what your overhead situation looks like, profit can still be minimal or non-positive.
Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by lesuorac on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @05:26PM (#40216563)
Sure but the "plus" part is capped [1] for cost+plus.

If you're buying AWS compute through GSA I bet the rate is more than AWS's costs + 10/15%.

Or if you purchase say post-it notes from Staples; I bet they're going to be way more than the cost of paper+glue*1.15.

[1]: https://www.acquisition.gov/far/15.404-4#FAR_15_404_4__d941e...

Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by janalsncm on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @09:26PM (#40218513)
In other words, Space X will exist as long as there are no competitors. That gives them years, not decades.
Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by jml7c5 on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @10:57PM (#40219046)
Are there any competitors expected to match SpaceX's launch costs or capacity in the next few years?
Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by greedo on Wednesday May 01, 2024 @07:13PM (#40230751)
Blue Origin will catch up any time now...
Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by mjhay on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @10:54AM (#40211640)
SpaceX is in a much more solid position. You can tell that Musk hasn't interfered in its operations nearly as much as he has with Tesla or X (case in point: renaming it "X").
Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by thejazzman on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @10:45AM (#40211486)
Once he rage fires Shotwell.. and given how insane that would be only validates its likelihood at this point
Re:Tesla conducting more layoffs, including entire Superchar... by lamontcg on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @03:41PM (#40215372)
I think the SpaceX disaster is more likely to be a loss of crew event.