News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by mminer237 on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @05:00PM (#40149576)
Having the US's primary rival, which runs massive disinformation campaigns, also opaquely control the content that US youth consume en masse seems worse than...just about any alternative.

Someone like Facebook wants the algorithm to show addictive content that generally isn't super offensive to the average person. Someone like the CCP wants the algorithm to show addictive content that idealizes "socialism with Chinese characteristics" and increases division in Western countries.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by atlas_hugged on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @07:16PM (#40151101)
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever used TikTok. I assumed the same thing going in and found quite the opposite. I’m way better informed since I started using it. In some cases by people that were actually involved in whatever event was newsworthy.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by Retric on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @07:27PM (#40151208)
Selectively reducing or excluding some events as not newsworthy while promoting others is observable when using ticktock and the underlying means of propaganda people are concerned about.

For a US example you can simply count the minutes of coverage Fox News and CNN give to various stories for the same basic effect. How much coverage you gives the Russia- Ukraine war can be just as impactful as if you refer to it as a Russian invasion or not.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @08:36PM (#40151759)
At least you think you are way better informed.

I don't use TikTok, but I use Facebook and Google's short video versions. I find just as many anti-CCP as pro-CCP content on it, and...I guess these are mostly TikTok videos because many of them still have TikTok watermarks.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by zeroCalories on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @08:48PM (#40151866)
I don't know if I've ever met a tiktok addict that's well informed.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by saagarjha on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @08:51PM (#40151892)
How well informed are people who talk about TikTok addicts, though?
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by throwawayq3423 on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @10:12PM (#40152548)
Well they know enough to know it's not a reliable source in anyway, so probably better than most?
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by galdosdi on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @09:43PM (#40152348)
ok zoomer
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by adezxc on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @07:25PM (#40151198)
Don't take my question as aggresive, but why do you think you're "way better informed" since you started using it? Better informed on what?
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by Workaccount2 on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @08:24PM (#40151668)
What the algorithm decided to inform them on.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by harryp_peng on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @08:47PM (#40151859)
Have you even used TikTok? Facebook connects you with the people around you, and TikTok connects you with your favorite people on earth. That's the essence of the product.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by jimbokun on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @08:18PM (#40151631)
How would you know?
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by throwawayq3423 on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @10:11PM (#40152542)
> I’m way better informed since I started using it.

I'm legitimately terrified to know what this means.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by logicchains on Thursday April 25, 2024 @02:01AM (#40153966)
Presumably it means they base their opinions of Gaza on videos of what's actually happening there rather than on propaganda statements by the IDF.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by zo1 on Thursday April 25, 2024 @03:31AM (#40154559)
I've found way more false news and stuff on TikTok than anywhere else, even about innocuous things and not something serious like a war. It's taken on the form of modern day chain mails in the way it spreads lies, with the participants being the most invested. They all think they're doing citizen journalism yet most of them verify nothing.

Let me not even get started on the deep fakes lurking on the platform.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by throwawayq3423 on Thursday April 25, 2024 @04:21PM (#40162517)
Not only is there more false info on Tiktok, the user comes away with high certainty they are being reliably informed. Because accounts popular on Tiktok focus strictly on presentation and entertainment, not anything actual journalists prioritize.

The effect is less informed with higher certainty, and terrible combination for training citizens for actual civil discourse.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by throwawayq3423 on Thursday April 25, 2024 @04:19PM (#40162492)
"Jews control the media" isn't an opinion worth debating. Move on
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by Capricorn2481 on Sunday April 28, 2024 @11:47AM (#40189445)
It's less that and more brown people aren't humanized, so media is too skittish to call a spade a spade.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by takeda on Thursday April 25, 2024 @02:51AM (#40154293)
Everyone who you ask will tell you that ads never work on them, yet we all buy branded shit.

Same thing with propaganda used by social media.

This video illustrates the effects of it: https://youtu.be/pB7WzqUq4Nk?t=324

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by mywittyname on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @06:26PM (#40150606)
> increases division in Western countries.

I don't see how people can say this with a straight face knowing that American adversaries operate almost in the open on Facebook. You don't need to control the platform to control the message. That's what social media companies sell!

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by alcoholic_byte on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @08:52PM (#40151905)
But you need to control the platform to siphon user data , have a foothold into everyone's phone and to peddle misinformation and entertainment instead of education (Chinese version operates differently than the non-Chinese one).

There is no greater vehicle to deliver a hooking mechanism to target specific users for spyware upload than an app that is installed on a lot of platforms. Weechat is one other such tool btw. and that thing behaves strangely compared to e.g. Whatsapp if you install it.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by throwawayq3423 on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @10:13PM (#40152553)
If it has to come down to companies increasing division in Western countries for profit over ideology, then fine. One is a negative externality that can be mitigated, the other is the entire point (therefore cannot be made better).
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by trimethylpurine on Thursday April 25, 2024 @01:03AM (#40153638)
That was restricted in previous actions by Facebook, according to Zuckerberg's testimony. So today, you do need to control the platform.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by Capricorn2481 on Sunday April 28, 2024 @11:48AM (#40189453)
> according to Zuckerberg's testimony

Not according to his employees

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by trimethylpurine on Sunday April 28, 2024 @02:53PM (#40190850)
That might be true, but after testimony in front of Congress?

They would have to be bribing the IRS. No way.

I don't like or use Facebook and I hope it dies a horrible death. But I'm also a realist.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by Capricorn2481 on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @12:20PM (#40212745)
Why would they have to bribe the IRS?
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by trimethylpurine on Wednesday May 01, 2024 @02:28AM (#40220181)
A foreign adversary can't pay Facebook for an ad without using a bank that reports to the IRS.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by Capricorn2481 on Wednesday May 01, 2024 @11:02AM (#40224259)
I don't think the GP was talking about ads at all when referring to foreign adversaries influence on Facebook. They wouldn't need ads. They're doing fine disseminating disinformation already. TikTok does not promote CCP messages through ads, either.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by trimethylpurine on Thursday May 02, 2024 @05:59AM (#40234437)
I think they were talking about ads because the comment referred to what they sell specifically.

>That's what social media companies sell!

In any case, without paid ads, their "friend me" campaigns didn't work. There's some research from the FBI on this.

Can't find the link right this second but I'll post back if I do.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by zo1 on Thursday April 25, 2024 @03:32AM (#40154569)
They operate everywhere in the open, with college campuses and academia being the most prominent places if you ask me.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by Capricorn2481 on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @05:44PM (#40150096)
> increases division in Western countries

I'm not convinced anything on TikTok is more divisive than any other social media platform. And Reddit seems to be filled with a lot more tankies than other platforms.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by Ygg2 on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @07:16PM (#40151096)
> increases division in Western countries.

To be fair having first past the post voting does wonders for division. No external enemy necessary.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by ajmurmann on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @10:34PM (#40152687)
While this AFAIK only applies to the US, it should be the #1 issue to solve. By a wide margin. It's honestly baffling that not everyone with half a brain is up in arms about it.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by shiroiushi on Thursday April 25, 2024 @05:36AM (#40155347)
Most people just don't understand basic math.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by ajmurmann on Thursday April 25, 2024 @09:14AM (#40157142)
Weirdly they understand it well enough to be angry at third candidates spoiling the election, but aren't able to make that last, tiny connection.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by sangnoir on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @05:55PM (#40150219)
> Having the US's primary rival, which runs massive disinformation campaigns, also opaquely control the content that US youth consume en masse seems worse than...just about any alternative

How is it worse than making disseminating disinformation illegal? The law as written lays bare the true motivation - it's not about fighting disinformation ("inauthentic user activity" has been detected across all social networks for the purposes of disinformation). It almost certainly is about protecting American companies from competitors with better AI algorithms. The legislature has telegraphed that the tech/potential for abuse are not problems by themselves - ownership by a Chinese company is what they take issue with.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by ladzoppelin on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @08:10PM (#40151568)
But why is that a bad thing, China has the same regulations on companies not Chinese? Its not "better" algorithms its "weaponized" algorithms designed for specific populations including its own population which I imagine are not as damaging then the ones applied to others. My point is, of course this will be banned if the US gov cannot benefit from it and considered a threat to certain people.
Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by sangnoir on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @10:39PM (#40152719)
> But why is that a bad thing

I didn't say it was a bad thing - I said there's a better option that wasn't taken. IMO, protecting citizens from bad behavior by domestic and foreign companies is nobler than corporate protectionism. YMMV .

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by henrikschroder on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @07:41PM (#40151349)
> idealizes "socialism with Chinese characteristics" and increases division in Western countries.

You're right, everyone I know now buys their glycine from Donghua Jinlong instead of using domestic manufacturers. This is clearly not because of the superior manufacturing capabilities of Donghua Jinlong, who are ISO9001 and ISO14001 certified, and whose glycine is industrial AND food grade, but because of an insidious campaign by the CCP to promote Chinese glycine across the entire industry, trying to crush American glycine manufacturing. I demand congressional hearings about what our elected politicians are doing about this threat to American-made glycine!

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by atlintots on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @09:03PM (#40151980)
Seeing another DHJL glycine enthusiast here on HN was not on my bingo, but it is a pleasant surprise.

Readers might also be happy to know DHJL glycine is Halal, Kosher, and Reach certified, and more recently, FDA approved as well!

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by henrikschroder on Thursday April 25, 2024 @12:24AM (#40153403)
On a serious note, it's so amusing to me to read the comments of people who hate TikTok, but who clearly haven't used it. They simply have no idea what it looks like and the kind of content that is popular on it.

But they're very certain that it's bad!

Meanwhile, I'm scratching my head trying to understand how my watch history could have any value whatsoever. Cute kittens, shirtless guys chopping wood, sad hamster memes, Sanchez the sleepy racoon, Young Royals edits, some dude eating all kinds of cheese, A bunch of confused Americans in Europe and vice versa, PEDRO PEDRO PEDRO, guys promoting their onlyfans, schwapeepee, and of course Donghua Jinlong content, although it seems to have run its course now.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by ClumsyPilot on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @08:45PM (#40151838)
> “socialism with Chinese characteristics" and increases division in Western countries

Do you have a single example of a successful Chinese media campaign, disinformation or information - just one?

Because I can name, off the top of my head, disinformation campaigns by Trump (election was stole) , by Israel (bunker under a hospital), by Isis (mass recruitment in western countries), by oil companies (heat pumps don’t work in Britain’s unique climate), by food companies, by Russia, by Greenpeace, by crazy people on 4chan but I cannot name a single message that came out of China and got major public resonance in the west.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by robgibbons on Thursday April 25, 2024 @12:47AM (#40153534)
CCP is a major pusher of disinformation/propaganda. Look up Dragonbridge. Or how YouTube had to remove thousands of CCP propaganda channels. Or the classic "US Army Covid Origin" story that China pushed when social media came for Wuhan.

China's 50-cent army buys social media accounts, or creates fake personas, to push narratives and abuses reporting/takedown mechanisms to suppress unfavorable posts and channels.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by ClumsyPilot on Thursday April 25, 2024 @09:06AM (#40157041)
This is major pusher of propaganda?

> Most DRAGONBRIDGE activity is low quality content without a political message, populated across many channels and blogs

If anything, this is a demonstration that their efforts are futile and incompetent, very much non-threat. I’ve seen even 4chan do better

We have multiple actors that push divisive misinformation through bots, much more successfully, and we do not apply any scrutiny to that.

Re:Biden signs TikTok 'ban' bill into law, starting clock fo... by johnnyanmac on Thursday April 25, 2024 @02:19AM (#40154086)
>Having the US's primary rival, which runs massive disinformation campaigns, also opaquely control the content that US youth consume en masse seems worse than...just about any alternative.

Sounds like a skill issue. The Us has decades worth of a head start on the internet and social media. If "the enemy" can just waltz in and disrupt that in a matter of 5 years, I think we have bigger issues on hand.

> Someone like the CCP wants the algorithm to show addictive content that idealizes "socialism with Chinese characteristics" and increases division in Western countries.

Yeah, America has a decade long headstart on that too. We blamed facebook in 2016, we're blaming Tiktok in 2024. How long are we going to deflect this to the internet?