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Re:Scale of the Universe by kromem on Friday April 19, 2024 @06:13AM (#40084978)
The counterpoint to that thought is why we should think non-existence is even possible. There doesn't seem to be any indication that nothing could exist other than our capacity to imagine it being so.

It's what's so annoying with people arguing about "something from nothing."

Even a vacuum has zero point energy. The idea that there could even be 'nothing' at any point in time is arguably a bigger leap of faith than the notion of some deity for whose sake it is being argued as a presupposition.

Re:Scale of the Universe by NayamAmarshe on Friday April 19, 2024 @07:02AM (#40085288)
"Something from nothing" is a flawed argument, I agree. It's just like saying everything came from ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ , because 'nothing' doesn't represent anything at all.

However, the idea that "'nothing' is impossible" still doesn't make sense to me. If the reality allows for infinite possibilities then one of the possibilities must be of 'nothingness'. This is what Buddhists argue, that reality is śūnya or 0/null/void, and that we exist only momentarily in this nothingness somehow but you can see how that argument is flawed too.

Then comes sāṁkhya that says there are 2 entities: The observer and the thing which is being observed. The observer (individual consciousness or puruṣa) is eternal, has no point of origin and no end. Similarly, prakṛti or nature also exists at the same time because the observer needs an observation but prakṛti's nature is to change all the time, it manifests and unmanifests (just like our bodies or everything else in this universe made of dead matter). However, even though prakṛti keeps this constant of change, the observer or puruṣa himself is unchanging (just like how our bodies and every single cell in it keep changing but the sense of 'I' remains the same somehow). On top of that, it says the prakṛti and puruṣa are mutually exclusive. They do not mix like oil and water but remain in contact at the same time, just like how we have material bodies that keep changing but the 'I' or the observer inside it is not made of prakṛti and hence remains detached from it. It is only the false-ego (or false-'I') of puruṣa that forces it to identify itself with prakṛti (like I'm a male, I have this job, this is my family, I have this body and face, etc.).

Re:Scale of the Universe by non-chalad on Friday April 19, 2024 @09:46AM (#40086789)
It's really simple.

The universe is based on Murphy's 1st Law: Anything can go wrong, including nothing.

"In the beginning there was nothing… Then something went wrong."

Re:Scale of the Universe by NayamAmarshe on Friday April 19, 2024 @04:39PM (#40091662)
Sounds good!
Re:Scale of the Universe by vbezhenar on Friday April 19, 2024 @08:34AM (#40086025)
If something's not reachable with speed of light, it exists only in one's imagination.

If something's not emitting any information (black hole insides), it exists only in one's imagination.

Re:Scale of the Universe by kromem on Friday April 19, 2024 @10:05AM (#40086983)
Reachable with the speed of light from what inertial frame?

Also, there's been some interesting progress regarding information about the inside of the black hole possibly leaking out in the Hawking radiation.

Re:Scale of the Universe by wiml on Friday April 19, 2024 @01:06PM (#40089316)
The speed of light is the same in all inertial frames.
Re:Scale of the Universe by marcosdumay on Friday April 19, 2024 @03:24PM (#40090998)
Distances are not.
Re:Scale of the Universe by NayamAmarshe on Friday April 19, 2024 @08:54AM (#40086219)
If something is in imagination, where exactly does it exist? What plane and what dimension? Where is it situated and what's the extent of it?

"It's all in your head" might be one answer but that's the question, what plane or dimension is it? and why do we not see it anywhere externally?

Re:Scale of the Universe by BlueTemplar on Friday April 19, 2024 @12:34PM (#40088865)
Funny, just today I read about things like waves or energy being arguably on a "different plane of existence" than their medium/embodiment :

http://www.av8n.com/physics/black-box.htm#sec-plane-of-exist...

(Which made me realize how little I know about eastern mysticism...)

Re:Scale of the Universe by mistermann on Friday April 19, 2024 @09:30AM (#40086595)
Did atoms exist before they were discovered, or not until after they were discovered?

This question could be applied to a number of things historically, and may even be in effect going forward.

Re:Scale of the Universe by ddj231 on Friday April 19, 2024 @09:22AM (#40086509)
The issue is that even in your framing “…’nothing’ at any point in time…” is at odds with the Big Bang theory which says time had a beginning. How do you conceive what was there ‘before’ the universe came to existence? (In the absence of matter, space, time and energy)
Re:Scale of the Universe by kromem on Friday April 19, 2024 @10:01AM (#40086949)
That's a common misconception. The big bang theory does not say that there wasn't stuff before the big bang.

Simply that our local version of spacetime expanded in the great inflation.

And I'm not sure if you've been following the news on it, but there's some serious issues with the theory at the moment.

Re:Scale of the Universe by pixl97 on Friday April 19, 2024 @11:31AM (#40088088)
It doesn't matter which 'serious issues' exist, no one has any explanation for why the future points to a high entropy version while the past point to a low entropy version. You can have issue with any particular issue of the big bang theory, but no matter what you put forth you have to answer the very hard question of 'why was entropy low', being that we know of no way in our current universe to reset entropy.
Re:Scale of the Universe by marcosdumay on Friday April 19, 2024 @03:23PM (#40090987)
You mean stuff like this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_inflation

People don't spend much time on those theories because they are inherently of little practical consequence. What includes that they are also not clearly testable.

Re:Scale of the Universe by NayamAmarshe on Friday April 19, 2024 @04:41PM (#40091673)
Even physics has limits because our physical reality and approach has limits. Not everything can be a controlled experiment, especially things that are way beyond what our senses allow.

So in the end, everybody's theory holds 'almost' the same weight. We're all clueless, yay!

Re:Scale of the Universe by BlueTemplar on Friday April 19, 2024 @12:28PM (#40088790)
The Prime Mover is a philosophical paradox even quite a bit older than postmodern physics.