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Re:Should You Use Upper Bound Version Constraints (In Python)? by int_19h on Wednesday April 17, 2024 @02:39PM (#40068560)
> After all, Python itself famously did so with the 2 to 3 transition

That transition has been so traumatic for the whole ecosystem that, if anything, it became an abject lesson as to why you don't do stuff like that. "Never again" is the current position of PSF wrt any hypothetical future Python 3 -> 4 transition.

Major Python libraries pretty much never just remove things over the course of a single major release. Things get officially announced first, then deprecated for at least one release cycle but often longer (which is communicated via DeprecationWarning etc), then finally retired.

> Leaving aside the questionable practice of exposing details of internal dependencies directly through one’s own public interface

Not all dependencies are internal. If library A exposes type X, and library B exposes type Y that by design extends X (so that instances of Y can be passed anywhere X is expected), that is very intentionally public.

Now imagine that library C exposes type Z that also by design extends X. If B and C both get their copy of A, then there are two identical types X that are not type-compatible.

Now suppose we have the app that depends on both B and C. Its author wants to write a generic function F that accepts an instance of X (or a subtype) and does something with it. How do they write a type signature for F such that it can accept both Y and Z?

Re:Should You Use Upper Bound Version Constraints (In Python)? by Chris_Newton on Wednesday April 17, 2024 @08:51PM (#40071825)
Major Python libraries pretty much never just remove things over the course of a single major release. Things get officially announced first, then deprecated for at least one release cycle but often longer (which is communicated via DeprecationWarning etc), then finally retired.

I’m not sure that’s a realistic generalisation. To pick a few concrete examples, there were some breaking changes in SQLAlchemy 2, Pydantic 2, and as an interesting example of the “rename the package instead of bumping the major version” idea mentioned elsewhere, from Psycopg2 to Psycopg (3). I think it’s fair to say all of those are significant packages within the Python ecosystem.

Not all dependencies are internal. If library A exposes type X, and library B exposes type Y that by design extends X […] Now imagine that library C exposes type Z that also by design extends X

Yes, you can create some awkward situations with shared bases in Python, and you could split all of the relevant types into different libraries, and this isn’t a situation that Python’s object model (or those of many other OO languages) handles very gracefully.

Could you please clarify the main point you’d like to make here? The shared base/polymorphism complications seem to apply generally with Python’s object model, unless you have a set of external dependencies that are designed to share a common base type from a common transitive dependency and support code that is polymorphic as if each name refers to a single, consistent type and yet the packages in question are not maintained and released in sync.

That seems like quite an unusual scenario. Even if it happens, it seems like the most that can safely be assumed by code importing from B and C — unless B and C explicitly depend on exactly the same version of A — is that Y extends (X from A v1.2.3) while Z extends (X from A v1.2.4). If B and C aren’t explicitly managed together, I’m not convinced it’s reasonable for code using them both to assume the base types that happen to share the same name X that they extend and expose through their respective interfaces are really the same type.