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Re:The Great Purge (1933) by tptacek on Monday April 15, 2024 @06:48PM (#40046569)
There's a lot of weird things in this comment, but the weirdest is the claim that antisemitism is a 19th century innovation; Google "expulsion of the Jews from" and see where it autocompletes for you. Similarly: pogroms in the Pale of Settlement were not motivated by (and predate) 19th century race science.
Re:The Great Purge (1933) by Kranar on Monday April 15, 2024 @07:35PM (#40046852)
No one would dispute that hatred towards Jews existed for 1000s of years, but I think you're mincing words here and being somewhat uncharitable. The kind of anti-Semitism that was based on an innate racial inferiority rather than based on religion and culture was very much a 19th century development and it was that specific form of hatred towards Jews that was widespread across Europe and America rather than an opposition towards Jewish customs and beliefs.

Indeed the term "anti-Semitism" was coined to reflect the shift in hatred towards Jews from one rooted in culture and religion to one root in race. The very fact that you acknowledge that pogroms prior to the 19th century were not based on race suggests that if you had just taken the time to actually understand what was being said you could have avoided your confusion.

Re:The Great Purge (1933) by mistermann on Tuesday April 16, 2024 @08:09AM (#40050972)
> Indeed the term "anti-Semitism" was coined to reflect the shift in hatred towards Jews from one rooted in culture and religion to one root in race.

It's kind of interesting how any such distinctions have been essentially eliminated. Nature is very mysterious.

Re:The Great Purge (1933) by adamwk on Tuesday April 16, 2024 @02:10PM (#40055286)
But I don't think that's true either. See: the Inquisition where even converted Jews weren't safe
Re:The Great Purge (1933) by mmorriso on Monday April 15, 2024 @07:28PM (#40046805)
While the impact on Jewish individuals was the same, it's true that Nazi style antisemitism focused on them as a racial group (Their ancestry), whereas previously they were targeted as a faith group (What they believed).

Your example of the Pale actually makes the point; Converting to Russian Orthodox actually released you from the rules imposed on Jews within the Pale. Conversion wouldn't save you from Nazis.

Re:The Great Purge (1933) by wolf550e on Tuesday April 16, 2024 @04:30PM (#40056784)
Eh.

Russian folk wisdom says "Жид крещёный - что вор прощеный. Веры нет" - "A converted Jew (slur) is like a forgiven thief - no faith/trust".

And in later times, "бить будут не по паспорту, а по морде" - you'll get beaten up on your face, not on (according to) your identification papers, a play on words meaning if you look Jewish, it doesn't matter that your papers say otherwise.

Re:The Great Purge (1933) by arp242 on Monday April 15, 2024 @06:57PM (#40046627)
I didn't claim that "antisemitism is a 19th century innovation", I claimed that Anti-Semitism in the sense of "against the Semitic race", as I described in my previous comment, is a 19th century invention. A distinction I made to describe a specific part of the Nazi world view.

This is not "weird thing", it's a mainstream view that I got from mainstream Jewish authors on the history of Jews. But hey, maybe those are also weird *shrug*

And your extremely condescending attitude is not appreciated.

Re:The Great Purge (1933) by tptacek on Monday April 15, 2024 @08:07PM (#40047037)
So, I didn’t read you that way, and, fair enough. But that’s still not true. Antisemitism was racialized in Spain, too, and I think you can find sources for earlier strains. And all “scientific racism” will of course stem from the 1800s, along with science itself.
Re:The Great Purge (1933) by arp242 on Monday April 15, 2024 @09:51PM (#40047637)
Actually I believe it was invented in France, although I could be misremembering that. It was certainly big in France for a time. I didn't mean to imply it was uniquely German.
Re:The Great Purge (1933) by FdbkHb on Tuesday April 16, 2024 @03:51AM (#40049410)
> Google "expulsion of the Jews from"

Hatred of a people based solely on religion while despicable has a different nature from racial hatred.

If you had googled "expulsion of jews from" you would notice there were many times they were allowed to stay if they converted (at least, give the appearance of). The Marrano during the times of the Spanish Inquisition is a notable example.

But if you are a jew in the era of antisemitism, there is nothing you can adopt to not be a jew. In the eyes of racists, you will always be a jew and the object of their hatred.

So, yes, 19th century antisemitism has a markedly specific nature that doesn't compare to the past.