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Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by Rinzler89 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:20PM (#39932445)
>the used market took a big hit as well pissing off existing owners

Oh no, poor wealthy Tesla owners loosing value on their car. /s Since when are ordinary cars appreciable investments?

It's been well known cars tank in value, especially when you're an early adopter of new tech in a market that's in constant disruption. Your 1999 GeForce 256 also lost most of it's value in a year compared to other later GPUs, it's the nature of tech in a rapidly changing market.

People who expect cars to hold/go up in value need to buy limite edition exotics, not mass produced commodities.

EVs tanking in value on the used market is good for EV adoption as non wealthy people can afford them.

Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by sandworm101 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:37PM (#39932715)
>> good for EV adoption as non wealthy people can afford them.

The sticker price isn't the issue. The issue is ironically fuel costs. Anyone who doesn't own their own house will rely on commercial chargers. In many circumstances a commercial charger can cost more per-mile than gasoline, and certainly they take much more time. So the non-rich, people who rent apartments and don't generally have spare time, cannot afford a used EV despite the sticker price.

Not-rich people also generally own only one car. They cannot "afford" a vehicle that is expensive to fix, both in time and cash. A couple days waiting for a part is a couple days missed work. A few weeks without a car (ie most any Tesla repair) could mean a lost job.

Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by rurp on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:45PM (#39932819)
It's a matter of degrees. A car losing 25% of its value is much better than losing 75% over the same time period. How well a vehicle will hold its value is a factor that many people factor into their purchasing decisions.
Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by Rinzler89 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:50PM (#39932879)
>How well a vehicle will hold its value is a factor that many people factor into their purchasing decisions.

Cars are commodities, like microwave ovens or washing machines, not houses. You won't get any sympathy because your risky economic bet didn't pan out the way you expected it to.

Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by lelanthran on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:24PM (#39933369)
> You won't get any sympathy because your risky economic bet didn't pan out the way you expected it to.

No one is offering sympathy, we're just saying that when buyers are considering a car, depreciation is a consideration.

Because, you see, no one simply burns down a 3 year old car when they want a new one - they use whatever equity in their existing car as part of the payment of the new car.

Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by jsight on Thursday April 04, 2024 @04:02PM (#39935144)
Not only that, but these were rented cheaply to Uber drivers. They'd come back with worn brakes from Ubers who'd drive hard and brake hard instead of using regen. They'd have batteries that had more cycles than most from charging to 100% whenever there was a break between rides.

They depreciated like a rented Uber, which seems entirely predictable.

Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by avgDev on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:12PM (#39933207)
One can buy a good brand like Lexus/Honda/Toyota or even BMW and be able to figure out their actual cost of ownership, depreciation is part of this.

If a value of a vehicle can drop $40k over a period of a month, it is too volatile and I will never purchase such brand.

Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by Rinzler89 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:16PM (#39933259)
>If a value of a vehicle can drop $40k over a period of a month, it is too volatile and I will never purchase such brand.

And why is this bad? Who said a brand/company is entitled to a certain amount of sales just because they exist? Aren't we in capitalisms where it's sink or swim and the market/customer is right? If a product is volatile maybe it's not good and people should orient to other brands, no?

If Tesla bins it, other better manufacturers will pick up the slack if the EV demand is there according to market forces. If the EV demand isn't there, maybe the EV hype was a bubble that was gonna pop sooner or later?

Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by thwarted on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:33PM (#39933494)
Why are you interpreting bad as some kind of moral position? You seem to be purposely misinterpreting these comments to start an argument about economic systems.

It's not bad that it happens, it's bad for Tesla if they are marketing their product as high-end/luxury while their product very obviously lacks the attributes, such as a stable/predictable value over time, that competitors' luxury products have. Someone deciding not to buy a product, for whatever reason, is the system working as intended. If Tesla can't produce a product people want to buy, Tesla will suffer the consequences, as they should. If they don't change their marketing or improve their product in the light of low sales, that's on them.

Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by ado__dev on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:50PM (#39932887)
There's a huge difference between a car depreciating normally (which all of them do at varying rates) and what happened to the Model 3 depreciation curve over the last 12 months.
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Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by ado__dev on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:00PM (#39933031)
I don't get why you're being so hostile.

Nobody is asking you to cry for Tesla owners or feel bad for them. If anything, this is more of a Tesla problem to solve as it reduces the likelihood of those wealthy buyers buying another Tesla in the future as it's another negative data point to consider.

People want to know what they can expect when making a huge purchase. When the pros outweigh the cons, and I would say worse than average depreciation is a pretty big con, then buyers will look elsewhere.

Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by Rinzler89 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:07PM (#39933120)
>I don't get why you're being so hostile.

Where am I hostile?

>and I would say worse than average depreciation is a pretty big con

Depreciation accurately reflects current market demand. People need to take a good look at this and learn valuable lessons.

If demand for Tesla dropped then it's Tesla's problem. If demand for EVs dropped maybe it's time to reflect on why it dropped.

Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by macintux on Thursday April 04, 2024 @02:04PM (#39933889)
> Where am I hostile?

Your entire comment is hostile and outside the guidelines for this site. We’re in this for honest discussion, not “let me play you the world's smallest violin for them” or “Are Tesla owners gonna starve or become homeless”.

Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by Rinzler89 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @02:16PM (#39934024)
The discussion was started on the basis that there's only an acceptable depreciation a car should have, whereas there's no such thing and I made that statement as clear and as direct as I could even if others don't like it.
Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by macintux on Thursday April 04, 2024 @02:35PM (#39934213)
Setting aside the merits of your argument, you could have presented it without the snark.
Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by thwarted on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:36PM (#39933534)
> Depreciation accurately reflects current market demand. People need to take a good look at this and learn valuable lessons.

And that is exactly what "I won't buy a brand whose products have volatile value" is.

Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by Rinzler89 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:56PM (#39933793)
Then, buy another EV?
Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by somerandomqaguy on Thursday April 04, 2024 @02:44PM (#39934287)
"Buying a car today is an investment into the future. I think the most profound thing is that if you buy a Tesla today, I believe you are buying an appreciating asset, not a depreciating asset."

-Elon Musk, 2019.

Whether you believed him or not is a different matter but that's what he said at the time.

Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by Rinzler89 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @04:43PM (#39935577)
Remember when he said your Model 3 can act like a robotaxi and earn you money? Pepridge farm remembers.
Re:Hertz's Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways by kube-system on Thursday April 04, 2024 @02:11PM (#39933969)
You are arguing with a straw man. Managing depreciation on a vehicle has nothing to do with anyone expecting appreciation. Many people simply want to maintain a reasonable residual value for their next trade in, and/or maintain an above-water loan.