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Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by arrowsmith on Thursday March 28, 2024 @11:59AM (#39853164)
> there isn't much social benefit to keeping folks locked up

Deterrent

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by rileymat2 on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:04PM (#39853276)
https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/247350.pdf

Prisons are good for punishing criminals and keeping them off the street, but prison sentences (particularly long sentences) are unlikely to deter future crime. Prisons actually may have the opposite effect: Inmates learn more effective crime strategies from each other, and time spent in prison may desensitize many to the threat of future imprisonment. See “Understanding the Relationship Between Sentencing and Deterrence” for additional discussion on prison as an ineffective deterrent.

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5. There is no proof that the death penalty deters criminals. According to the National Academy of Sciences, “Research on the deterrent effect of capital punishment is uninformative about whether capital punishment increases, decreases, or has no effect on homicide rates.”

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by MadnessASAP on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:13PM (#39853455)
That is certainly correct for "street crime" where premeditation and risk reward analysis aren't a part of the equation.

I have some pretty serious doubts about it when it comes to large financial crimes where both those things are absolutely part of the process. A death sentence probably isn't going to stop someone from killing another person, they're already off the deep end of irrationality. However 25 years of prison is probably going to be a significant deterrent to someone choosing to commit billions worth of fraud, maybe the profit margin isn't that important.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by commakozzi on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:23PM (#39853685)
We ALL know/knew who Bernie Madoff was and what happened to him. Are you sure your logic is sound here?
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by riversflow on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:40PM (#39854018)
Yeah, I really think comparing common street crime with high financial crime is Apples and Oranges. Common criminals don’t have much to lose, yes going to prison sucks, but it means less when you live in low income housing with other people, can’t afford basic shit and/or are in significant mental distress. On the other hand Financial criminals usually have a LOT to lose, and to get into the position to commit those crimes they likely have a degree of rationality that’s less guaranteed than in street crime.

Frankly, I think we need a lot more of this kind of punishment to get more trust back into our high-trust society. More rich people need to go to prison for crimes against society, because honestly it feels more like Madoff and SBF were one offs rather than business as usual.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by gizajob on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:13PM (#39853460)
Yes but at the same time, anyone attempting to set up legitimate crypto exchanges and engage in the kinds of shenanigans SBF indulged in will know to check with their lawyers before moving now, because they'll have to think "Will doing this (possibly fraudulent activity) land me in jail for 25 years like SBF?" - that's a decent deterrent.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by rileymat2 on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:31PM (#39853835)
I don’t know if I disagree, because I have not thought seriously about the risk/reward.

My point along with the grand parent is that at a certain point it is more costly than it is worth in deterrence. And the data backs that up, generally.

But what that point is, I have no idea.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by ReptileMan on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:45PM (#39854097)
>5. There is no proof that the death penalty deters criminals. According to the National Academy of Sciences, “Research on the deterrent effect of capital punishment is uninformative about whether capital punishment increases, decreases, or has no effect on homicide rates.”

Capital punishment is cheap though. And more humane than life sentence. Actually I think that we should return some form of corporal punishment and shorten prison sentences for non violent crimes. Subject SBF to Singapore style caning every month and 2-3 years in prison, forbid him to ever work with other people's money and be done with him.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by rileymat2 on Thursday March 28, 2024 @02:19PM (#39855458)
> Capital punishment is cheap though.

Getting capital punishment right is certainly not cheap, if you are worried about the finality of it.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by hmate9 on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:47PM (#39854131)
It obviously deters crime. Look at it this way. If maximum prison sentence was 5 minutes, would you see more or less crime happening?
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by kemayo on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:04PM (#39853259)
In terms of "ruins your life", anything past a few years does that.

Speaking purely for myself, I don't feel much difference in the deterrent effect from the punishment being 5 years or 25 years. Either one would utterly wreck everything about my life, and although the latter is worse it's not enough so to change my decisions.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by rwmj on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:15PM (#39853491)
If he gets out in 5 years he'll be doing the same thing. He showed no remorse or understanding that he did anything wrong. A 25 year sentence means we've got 20 more years of public safety.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by yokem55 on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:01PM (#39853195)
If 20+ years isn't enough of a deterrent, I seriously doubt even more would be.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by arrowsmith on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:04PM (#39853265)
I didn't say he should get more. I think 25 years is totally reasonable.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by xvector on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:12PM (#39853447)
I can't think of any cases where someone would be deterred by 25 years in prison, but not, say, 8 years in prison.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by digital_sawzall on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:31PM (#39853847)
I would easily go to jail for 8 years for $50+ million. 25 years would not be worth it to me for any amount.

I am from El Paso, which is on the border with Mexico and grew up with many kids whose parents were smugglers and cartel affiliated.

I know several parents who went to jail for ~10 years while were were in elementary school, the kids never wanted for anything, and then when the parents got out and started capital intensive business.

One parent did 12 years and got out to start a a series of high end mexican restaurants, one started a steakhouse, one bought a small hotel, one started a commercial construction company.

It's all part of the game, just how startup founders grind for years for the money.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by yau8edq12i on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:39PM (#39853997)
Honestly? I sincerely doubt you, or anyone would actually, really, for realsies, go to prison for eight years for $50M. Anyone would beg to be released after a few weeks.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by digital_sawzall on Thursday March 28, 2024 @01:03PM (#39854405)
That is a complete middle class mindset. Jail is cool in the hood. I've done a few months for stupid stuff when I was young and it's not that bad.

People risk 10 years for robbing bands for a couple thousand. A guaranteed $10 million would have lines around the block for volunteers in the neighborhood I grew up in.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by yau8edq12i on Friday March 29, 2024 @04:04AM (#39861651)
There's a difference between risking ten years and knowing for sure that you'll spend the ten years.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by robswc on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:44PM (#39854076)
I too think that people underestimate how much prison would absolutely suck. Especially if you lead a life that is otherwise crime-free.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by FabHK on Thursday March 28, 2024 @01:30PM (#39854800)
You have little imagination. I was going to expand, but sibling comment expressed it well already.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison by ViewTrick1002 on Thursday March 28, 2024 @12:01PM (#39853198)
Has never been shown to work when studying the impact of "harsh punishments".