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Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by jsiepkes on Thursday March 28, 2024 @07:35AM (#39849892)
It's stock manipulation, we just chose not to see it as such. Just like alcohol is objectively a hard drug but we just chose not to categorize it as such.
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by gpderetta on Thursday March 28, 2024 @07:51AM (#39850048)
Is a company issuing its own stock (i.e. selling) also market manipulation? It brings the price down. Buyback is the reverse operation.

The difference from actual price manipulation, is that the price change in issues and buybacks is a permanent effect of the material change of the number of outstanding shares, not a fledging effect of the change in trade volume, i.e. the intrinsic value of the stock goes up or down.

edit: of course buybacks, like dividends, decrease the value of a company, and issuing stock increase it, so it is not clear cut.

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by pjc50 on Thursday March 28, 2024 @07:37AM (#39849904)
Why is company X buying its own stock on the open market "manipulation" rather than any other purchaser?
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by Drakim on Thursday March 28, 2024 @07:47AM (#39850000)
Why is me buying my own book to bring it to the best seller list any different than any other purchaser?

Stocks are supposed to be a share of ownership in a company, and the price goes up and down because being an owner of a company goes up and down in desirability, based on how well the company is doing.

Just like with buying your own book, buying your own stock artificially increases the desirability.

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by pas on Thursday March 28, 2024 @07:58AM (#39850117)
that's an argument for why best seller lists are stupid.

companies can create new stock anytime out of thin air, and that decreases the price. why can't they do the opposite?

some owners of the company decide to buy stocks from the others, thus consolidating ownership. that's what stock buyback is.

note, the argument for taxing buybacks is completely different, and valid. (and it might make sense, it might not, it depends on the circumstances. externalities tax (pollution, tax on induced traffic, etc), LVT (land value tax) and wealth tax would be much better, than taxing transactions.)

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by jmholla on Thursday March 28, 2024 @11:29AM (#39852768)
> companies can create new stock anytime out of thin air, and that decreases the price. why can't they do the opposite?

So at any point, a company can devalue existing shares that people have already purchased? That also sounds like a problem.

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by pas on Thursday March 28, 2024 @02:21PM (#39855486)
sure it can be securities fraud, but usually it's done to attract more investors.

companies on stock exchanges usually do stock splits, etc. (and based on bylaws majority or 2/3rs or more of existing owners need to approve.)

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by akvadrako on Thursday March 28, 2024 @06:42PM (#39858285)
If companies couldn't issue stock there wouldn't be a stock market at all.
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by bvaldivielso on Thursday March 28, 2024 @07:58AM (#39850116)
This is a misunderstanding of what stock buybacks are. Companies do not buy their stock from themselves. They buy the stock from participants in the market.

Following your example, it'd be like the author of a book buying the book they wrote from someone else. If the author chooses to pay someone else 1000$ for their book, they can, but they will be wasting money.

A company doing a stock buyback is trading off their own capital (they have to spend it, it's not an infinite money glitch where they buy it from themselves) to get back shares of the company itself at the then-market-price. The market chooses whether that's a good trade. It may not

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by robertlagrant on Thursday March 28, 2024 @08:09AM (#39850212)
> Why is me buying my own book to bring it to the best seller list any different than any other purchaser?

What's the best-seller list in this case?

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by jsiepkes on Thursday March 28, 2024 @07:45AM (#39849978)
Because you have inside knowledge and you are altering the stock price.
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by koolba on Thursday March 28, 2024 @07:51AM (#39850047)
The company is in charge of itself. Everything it does alters the price.

Bought back shares strictly increase the price for existing shareholders as it takes them off the market. The entire concept is mainly due to stupidity in tax law that ends up double taxing direct dividends.

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by chongli on Thursday March 28, 2024 @07:53AM (#39850061)
Stock buybacks are heavily regulated. They need to be tracked and publicly reported and the plans for buybacks need to be announced by the company ahead of time.
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by jomohke on Thursday March 28, 2024 @08:06AM (#39850184)
Note that buybacks must be announced beforehand by the company, so everyone selling their shares has the same knowledge.
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by Retric on Thursday March 28, 2024 @07:47AM (#39850003)
Because it’s independent of other price signaling mechanisms. The company doesn’t buy the stock because it thinks that stock is a good investment, it does so because of how it influences future prices.

Ignoring inflation if a company issues the same inflation adjusted dividend forever say 1% at current prices. In theory the stock should stay roughly the same over the next hundred or thousand years. However, with a buyback the stock would increase constantly forever with endless stock splits.

The second option is great for long term owners in terms of taxes, but it’s also manipulation of the stock price.

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by davrosthedalek on Thursday March 28, 2024 @07:53AM (#39850062)
No, it buys it /because it has money to spare/. Having the money to spare makes it a good investment.
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by Retric on Thursday March 28, 2024 @07:57AM (#39850109)
Companies can have net profits and be terrible investments.

The exact same company can be a great investment at 10$, and a terrible investment at 10,000$. You can’t separate stock price from if something is a good investment or not.

The example I gave was low risk 1% dividend, that’s not a stock I would want to own. Net result the company, which has inside information, should expect the price to correct ie fall at some point and thus be a poor investment until that point. That doesn’t prevent them from buying it because the goal isn’t a positive ROI.

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by wmil on Thursday March 28, 2024 @07:57AM (#39850102)
If you're going to stretch the difference that much the why not go all out?

CEOs are constantly attempting to manipulate the stock price by trying their best to do a good job.