Maybe both of us will be proven wrong, someday. It's the nature of unknowing.
Read John and Romans 1-3 asking who Jesus is, what our problem is, and what He does about it. You will know the truth. Then, choose life.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1&version=...
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+1-3&vers...
Maybe you don't need a miracle, having received whatever visions you claim to have seen. The rest of us remain mentally-sound skeptics that need better evidence than circular reasoning around the Bible.
I think that is key. Too often we try to appear loving, to earn God's favor. We grabbed hold of the pulpit, to prove our ministry value, and in so doing, we quenched the Holy Spirit; to attempt to say it was us who did the work, not He -- since we worked to be loved, rather than accepted the free offer of salvation, and accepted that God loves us not based on our works. Only then will it be no showmanship, and enacted from love
If we don't get that key, (and sometimes we dont), then @talldayo's perspective would be right in saying religion is an empty shell of ideology, grasping to appear loveable, rather than knowning it is loved, and living from that perfect security
I think this was the key to the revival you talked about in Wales, where crime stopped, and on duty police would form choirs to sing carols -- they sang "Here is love, vast as an ocean"
Without trying to make anyone angry, I legitimately believe religion as a concept is obsolete. My impression is that Christianity is blatantly manmade, and adapted to each society in accordance with how servile the audience is. That's not to say it's an ineffective tool, but propaganda and torture can also be effective tools that we consider irrational and unhealthy under a liberal democracy. I think that any state that respects the individual sovereignty of it's citizens would not turn around and spend their tax-dollars on non-secular investments.
Thanks for engaging, and have no fear of that :^)
> I legitimately believe religion as a concept is obsolete
I think this is correct, from your world viewpoint. But the key to our difference is in two viewpoints:
A ship is sinking. Do you dispise the weakness, and strengthen the ship? Or do you say the sinking is inevitable, we must abandon ship?
The first group must dispise the second for giving up. The second is Christian -- this world will end, we cannot hope in our own strength, we must hope in Christ
The first group is Nietzschien. We must throw out the weak and become masters
These two viewpoints are deeply opposed
I have two notes here: One is, I think Nietzschien thought leads to a society you don't want to live in. The second is that science says the universe is a sinking ship: we began in nothing, we end in meaningless heat death. Nietzsche hoped to escape this by becoming the overman, a strong enough master to create his own meaning
A third note, against Christianity, is that the second group must become slaves to Christ, and this is a hard route to take. I believe this is the reason most people choose to join that first group
But anyway, I appreciate your time. For me this has been my second most positive and enlightening conversation on HN, so even if you step away, know that I appreciate you and your forthrightness
Nietzsche aimed to save his life. Jesus aimed to give his life
Jesus saves the weak. Nietzsche does not
Apologies for pushing you hard. I think if I had found this foundation of life giving love, I would of treated you better, and found truth -- the one who freely gives his life, freely places truth first; and this is love
Re treating other groups the same
I think the group should carry the weight it’s earned in terms of evidence and outcomes. Here’s some evidence of the Gospel that far outweighs the vast majority of what U.S. media reports as facts:
https://www.gethisword.com/evidence.html
Now, compare the Muslim faith. They recognize the Bible as Scripture, the authtor’s writings heavily contradict it, and therefore he is a false prophet. He worked no miracles per earliest writings and didn’t come back from the dead. His influence largely spread by money and the sword whereas Christ told us to peacefully share His message. The Christian-like nations had much better outcomes for most individuals than Muslim nations, too.
So, evidence-based reporting would favor Christianity over Islam. It would also report any good or bad things people in those faiths were doing. They’d just report the news.
Re my background, “ego,” and “illusion”
I was a hardcore, liberal, scientific atheist who destroyed religious people for ego and fun. Most of the world around me were arrogant, selfish people chasing ego, money, knowledge, and pleasure. We opposed Christian values to push the opposite. My country got worse and worse the more we did stuff like that, too, but we blamed everyone else. Especially right-wingers and Bible thumpers.
One day, I was forced to believe after witnessing an actual miracle on top of highly-improbable events. The God who works miracles deserves more belief than my prior icons who had no such power. After believing in Him, the Spirit of God dwells in us and delivers on His promises. We saw the results in our family, workplace, etc. He gradually humbled me into a different person, too, who acts for His name and others’ future. In fact, God requires each act be done in love or He won’t reward it at all. No showmanship.
Now, I was in a community that shared all the history, news, and analyses that was hidden from me as a liberal. It was like leaving Plato’s Cave. After a while, I had seen everything from lives changing in the hood (eg Memphis TN) to studies showing positive outcomes on a national level to doctors confirming miracles granted in Jesus’ name. What I had before were my personal beliefs with no such evidence or power.
One of the other lessons from God’s Word is how He blesses or disciplines nations. The nations that followed Christ or kept laws similar to God’s design were very prosperous in many ways. In the Bible, they’d turn to idolatry (or atheism), sexual immorality, oppression of workers, and kill their children for financial success. Each time, God’s wrath eventually came down on them with economic problems, random violence going up, chronic illness going up, birth rates going down, bad weather, and so on. They were destroyed. As predicted, America started doing all those things after turning away from God with all the same responses beginning to happen.
So, we’re not taking out of ego or speculation or hatred of people. We’ve seen objective, personal, and historical proof that the Bible is true with positive outcomes for individuals and nations. We see our nation turning to huge sin and paying the same price in the Bible. That’s sad.
We want all of you to live eternally, purposefully, and with deep peace in hard times. The media systematically suppresses or makes negative reports about Christ and His positive results while promoting tons of unproven or sinful practices even when they do damage. If they do the opposite, or even just more righteousness, it will help many people.