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Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by AnthonyMouse on Saturday March 16, 2024 @01:13PM (#39727661)
What you really want here is for ebooks to be subject to First Sale. In general "licensing" should be restricted to the rights of the copyright holder, e.g. giving someone a license to permanently increase the number of copies that exist in the world, as when an author licenses a publisher. If someone has bought a copy, that should be theirs, they should be free to transfer it to other devices and other people as long as there continues to be only as many permanent copies as they've purchased, and the copyright holder can't impose any further restrictions on that, essentially as an anti-trust anti-tying rule because copyright is a monopoly.

Then libraries could buy physical or digital copies and do the thing they've always done.

Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by jzb on Saturday March 16, 2024 @02:39PM (#39728315)
It doesn’t really make sense to transfer the concept of first sale to digital goods. Even assuming a scheme that allows a library to fully control lending so that only one copy is in use at a time, a digital copy is not going to wear out. So publishers lose out on sales of popular titles when a library would need to refresh a physical copy.
Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by c0pium on Saturday March 16, 2024 @04:36PM (#39729283)
I own multiple books that are over 100 years old. They weren’t even that expensive.
Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by AnthonyMouse on Saturday March 16, 2024 @02:40PM (#39728324)
It takes longer for a physical copy to wear out than copyright terms should last to begin with. Also, you're allowed to repair books -- because it's your book.
Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by j_maffe on Saturday March 16, 2024 @05:21PM (#39729583)
If you're going to nitpick on this, fine... some research can be done on the number of uses a book can go through before it wears out and apply that to the e-book. It's certainly more than 26 and absolutely more than 2 years (how this 2 years condition is acceptable I'll never know)
Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by knome on Saturday March 16, 2024 @05:38PM (#39729710)
Being free to share information is the natural state. The copyright is an artificial restriction introduced to allow authors to benefit from their works, and by proxy, the publishers to whom they sell those rights. Perpetual rent seeking is not now nor was it ever the purpose of those laws. They certainly have nothing to do with some sort of physical copy planned obsolescence system.

One of the best features of Valve's Steam platform is exactly that it gives users the ability to perpetually install the software they have purchased, even if the publisher other removes it from the platform. If users were allowed to resale their purchased games, it would be nearly at full par with first sale doctrine.

Digital systems are a modern bypassing of such prior conventions and laws, and it makes perfect sense to extend them in that direction with time.

Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by c0pium on Saturday March 16, 2024 @04:49PM (#39729365)
What you’re proposing would require a literal quantum shift in DRM, where it’s only possible to use a copy of something if that thing hasn’t been itself copied somewhere else. That world would ironically unite the desires of publishers, creators, and actual archivists, leaving only the pirates out in the cold. Whoever figures out how to do that is going to make a fortune.
Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by j_maffe on Saturday March 16, 2024 @05:19PM (#39729564)
No you wouldn't. It's not about DRM, it's about the contractual agreements between libraries and publishers. They already track the number of times it's borrowed and for how long. OP is suggesting that it should be dealt with the same as a hard copy, i.e. only one person can borrow it at a time.
Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by c0pium on Saturday March 16, 2024 @05:45PM (#39729767)
Proposing that any rights holder would accept a solution where there is no technical control preventing arbitrary copying is an extraordinary claim which requires extraordinary evidence. I’m not saying it wouldn’t be cool, I’m saying it’s never going to happen.

Secondly, you should reread their post, it’s much broader than your interpretation. They were envisioning a world where the device and copying restrictions we have today don’t exist.

Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by j_maffe on Saturday March 16, 2024 @05:54PM (#39729828)
I'm not sure we're on the same page. How do you think libraries loan out ebooks, currently? DRM for this exact functionality is already implemented by most publishers
Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by c0pium on Sunday March 17, 2024 @11:00AM (#39734885)
You should reread their post, libraries usage is incidental to what they’re talking about. Their point, that first sale should apply to ebooks, requires a fundamentally different approach to DRM. If I own my content and can put it on any device I want, how can the seller be sure I’m only using one copy at a time? Consider the case that I might have it on multiple different devices which aren’t connected to the internet, they’re saying I should be able to do that while keeping the requirement that only one copy be usable at a time.

My reference to quantum was saying that this usage pattern would require something like quantum entanglement to replicate the state of which copy is active among all copies.

Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by j_maffe on Sunday March 17, 2024 @01:17PM (#39736052)
I'm not sure if the librarians in the article meant this but that's beside the point. The publishers can enforce a DRM on their side such that only one reader gets it at a time and adjust the contracts with the libraries accordingly, no need for fancy quantum stuff for client-side DRM.
Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by AnthonyMouse on Monday March 18, 2024 @02:16PM (#39747924)
> If I own my content and can put it on any device I want, how can the seller be sure I’m only using one copy at a time?

They can't, which is the same as it is now. DRM is a farce and everything is on The Pirate Bay. Which is why restricting libraries like this is ridiculous -- anybody who doesn't care to follow the law doesn't need to get a copy from a library, they can just download it from a piracy site. The reason you go to the library instead is that you want to follow the law.

Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by j_maffe on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @07:18PM (#39773191)
There is no justice in following unjust laws.
Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by elijaht on Saturday March 16, 2024 @05:54PM (#39729824)
> that it should be dealt with the same as a hard copy, i.e. only one person can borrow it at a time.

That's how it works in every library system I have dealt with

Re:Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fi... by j_maffe on Saturday March 16, 2024 @06:15PM (#39729961)
Yeah same but as the article states, there are extra terms in the agreement such as a maximum of 26 loans and a two-year renewal, whichever comes first. And the ebook is usually 4 times more expensive than the physical one just for that period. It should be treated just like a hard copy in all these manners.