People keep saying this but I don't know why. For me it's obvious that if the IDF keep besieging Gaza, Hamas will eventually have to come out of their holes, and die.

I suspect this already happens a lot except we don't get to find out because there's no reporting from the locations where IDF and Hamas fighters exchange fire. But, reports from the few hostages that have been released, or freed, make it clear that Hamas is subject to the same deprivation of food and water as the rest of Gaza (the hostages tell stories about the poor quality and amount of meals they shared with their guards) and they're stuck in their bunkers to boot, which can't be great for their overall physical and mental stamina.

This is not a war that Hamas can win, not even survive. Not in the long run. Their best chance is to keep their heads down and wait it out. But if I understand that, IDF commanders certainly understand that and they're not going to go away until Hamas all come out of their holes exhausted and starved waving little white flags.

I think the mistake people make is to think of Hamas a bit like the partisans who took to the maquis in WWII, or maybe the Taliban against the US. It's not the same situation. Hamas has nowhere to go. They are trapped, like rats in a maze. They're not getting out of that alive, unless the IDF is forced to withdraw by political pressure, which so far is not happening.

Besides which, if the IDF keeps at it like it is, it won't really matter because there won't be any Gaza, or Gazans, left for Hamas to control.

Hamas (and I mean the Al Qassam brigades) are toast. The only question is how much Gaza will bleed until they pop out of the toaster.

Because Ismail Haniyeh is in Qatar.

Once the war is over and Sinwar is dead or captured then they will probably turn to Haniyeh, but until then his role is reduced to that of a senior negotiator and nothing more.

Still doesn't justify the conduct of war in Gaza we see, because so far nil on taking out the Hamas leadership you mentioned. And going by public statement of senior Israeli government officials (which by no means is representative of all Israelis nor all jews), the goal is more a depopulation of Gaza, with a asecond priority on Hamas leadership. One could even say, Hamas needs to be kept alive and active in order to serve as an excuse for continued war, one could say ethnic cleansing, in Gaza.

What's happening in Gaza is by all means not a genocide. If the IDF wanted to do this, they could just carpet bomb the Gaza Strip. There's like 2 million people in Gaza, and about 20-30k casualties so far - for an urban warfare scenario, under the conditions of this war (=especially Hamas hiding amongst civilians), that actually shows significant restraint on part of the IDF.

There are some cases where IDF soldiers likely have committed war crimes (destroying random shopkeepers' inventories, there's been a few videos of these on TikTok), but as despicable as such acts are, that's still not a genocide.

> Or, anyway, that's what it would be if it wasn't more and more obvious that the people that Ben-Gvir and that crew have a problem with are "everyone in Israel who isn't Jewish."

Fully agreed, Netanyahu and his ilk absolutely have to go, the sooner the better - they are actively making the situation worse including on the legal front.

> But we have expectations of modern societies, and one of them is not to force flight-or-death of entire ethnic populations.

There's no other way to fight urban warfare in reality, that's the point.

You are correct, which is why (I assume as you were replying) I was editing my post. It is absolutely an attempt at ethnic cleansing, where they are herding Gazans towards the south in hopes that they just fuck off to Egypt.

> There's no other way to fight urban warfare in reality, that's the point.

That's an unfortunate situation for a member of the liberal order to be in, and I sympathize. I also don't think that changes the calculus. Civilians don't stop mattering because you want to (justifiably!) neutralize the authoritarians hiding amongst them.

In that case the IDF should not fight an urban war. There is no strategic objective that can reasonably be achieved that justifies the carnage. What the IDF is waging in Gaza is clearly not any kind of defensive war: it is a retaliatory operation motivated by the humiliation suffered by the IDF and the Israeli government who failed, miserably, in their responsibility to defend their people. Hamas could never have perpetrated the 7 October atrocity, if the IDF was not asleep at the wheel, or rather off to defend the fascist settlers, and leaving the "socialist" kibbutzim to defend themselves. If the IDF really wanted to avoid a repeat of 7 October, the way to do that is very easy and does not require any Palestinians to be bombed at all: just don't fuck up again. The IDF had one job. They failed, and now the Gazans are paying for their failure. "Urban warfare" my ass, this is just shooting fish in a barrel.

And as everyone and their little sister has pointed out, including plenty in Israel, even if, when, Hamas is destroyed, the only way to avoid a new resistance organisation emerging is to exterminate the Palestinians (not just in Gaza, everywhere, and that includes Syria and Lebanon) and so perpetrate the genocide you claim Israel does not want to. Failing that, you think "Hamas-ISIS" are Nazis? Wait 'till you see the monsters that will rise from their ashes, the maggots bursting from the corpse of Gaza.

As to the hostages, there's no doubt that if Israel wants to get them back, then it should keep bombing and razing Gaza; but if it wants to get them back alive, then it should stop now.

Because Israel has herded Gazans to the border and is steadfastly refusing to guarantee that they may return to their homes if refugee placement and aid becomes available in Egypt.

It’s almost as if they want those Gazans, and not merely Hamas, gone. One of those things is a war crime.