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Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by paganel on Monday March 04, 2024 @07:43AM (#39589754)
There's a big geo-political component now at play, at least when it comes to Europe (I live in Europe). Meaning that the Europeans can try and upset the big American corporations up to a point (almost 2 billion euros as in this case), but not any further, because at the end of it all the security of the continent depends on American hegemony, on American guns and ultimately on American money.

From that point of view the situation back in the '90s was a lot more fluid, as at some point there were even talks of an Europe that would have extended "from Lisbon to Vladivostok" (so leaving the Americans out of it altogether).

Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by RandomLensman on Monday March 04, 2024 @08:12AM (#39590035)
That security arrangement is currently dissolving, so those ideas around not upsetting the US are fading.
Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by paganel on Monday March 04, 2024 @09:10AM (#39590686)
We'll have to wait and see, for the moment I think it's mere posturing coming from some European leaders.

To begin with, the European nuclear deterrent when it comes to keeping Russian on their toes is a joke compared to what the American have as part of their arsenal.

Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by pjc50 on Monday March 04, 2024 @09:59AM (#39591251)
There is no European nuclear deterrent. The non-proliferation treaties bar any further countries from developing one. It would be a huge upheaval for even Germany or Italy, let alone the EU itself, to develop their own nuclear deterrent. (Not to mention politically impossible within Germany itself!)

The UK has a quasi-independent deterrent (we developed our own and then agreed to abandon it and buy the US option instead), but is not part of the EU any more.

The only true independent EU nuclear deterrent is France.

An under-appreciated aspect of the NATO/EU defence situation is that the US does not actually want the EU, or any of its constituent countries such as the former Axis powers, to become too capable. Or develop a local manufacturing capability that outsells the US one. The US actually prefers a weakish Europe defended by US troops to one strong enough not to need them and even to contemplate removing them.

Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by RandomLensman on Monday March 04, 2024 @10:20AM (#39591486)
The NPT could be exited. Germany is under a tougher bind with the 2+4 treaty, though.

Ultimately, Europe is capable of doing its own thing - US or not.

Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by RandomLensman on Monday March 04, 2024 @09:28AM (#39590912)
The US signaled pretty clearly that it cannot be relied upon so Europe will need to react (incl. on nuclear and other deterrence).
Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by FirmwareBurner on Monday March 04, 2024 @07:57AM (#39589896)
> the security of the continent depends on American hegemony, on American guns and ultimately on American money.

And the security of the American chip industry depends on ASML machines and American airline passengers depend on EU made airplanes. What's your point? Every post-WW2 economy is dependent on the other economies nowadays. There's no fully independent economy that can survive on its own anymore.

US companies get fined because they break EU laws, it's not done out of spite. If they dont wanna get fined they should stop breaking the laws. Simple.

Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by paganel on Monday March 04, 2024 @08:05AM (#39589972)
I didn't say it was "out of spite", to the contrary, I said that the measures should have been (and could have been, given a different geo-political context) a lot harsher, such as trying to breaking up Apple's operations in Europe and more.

That type of action is off the table for the foreseeable future, and the same goes for the other big US tech companies that are operating in Europe in defiance of the spirit of EU laws, such as Alphabet and Meta (anything related to Musk is a special case because of politics-related concerns).

Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by pb7 on Monday March 04, 2024 @08:08AM (#39589999)
The US doesn’t need Airbus. Europe would crumble without American tech.
Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by RandomLensman on Monday March 04, 2024 @08:15AM (#39590068)
US without European precision engineering, machinery, etc. - might be tough for a while.
Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by FirmwareBurner on Monday March 04, 2024 @08:10AM (#39590020)
Yeah, what would we do without Windows, Facebook and Instagram? /s
Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by pb7 on Monday March 04, 2024 @08:16AM (#39590075)
Most of Europe’s communication can be severed by turning off WhatsApp servers. That’s just one product out of thousands.

Europe is extremely dependent on American tech.

Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by FirmwareBurner on Monday March 04, 2024 @08:20AM (#39590106)
>Most European communication can be severed by turning off WhatsApp servers.

Oh no, what am I gonna do then?! Oh wait, I can just contact people by GSM voice or SMS, or use Signal or Threema the secure Swiss messanging service.

FYI, the US communication can be disrupted too because they're using Nokia-Siemens 5G stations since the US has no local players in this space anymore.

Let's stop being childish, ok? This isn't a CoD lobby for edgy 8 yearolds.

Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by pb7 on Monday March 04, 2024 @09:47PM (#39598898)
And yet you use WhatsApp because the European alternatives are hot garbage. Same with every other product domain.

Regulation isn’t innovation.

Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by sensanaty on Monday March 04, 2024 @08:50AM (#39590457)
My company is highly intertwined with WA and if they killed it off in the EU, we'd just switch to Signal/Telegram/the millions of other secure messaging services out there ¯ \ _ ( ツ ) _ / ¯
Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by Hamuko on Monday March 04, 2024 @08:53AM (#39590483)
Disrupted, sure. Severed? You do know that we still have a functioning SMS network, right?

Also, personally, I don't even use WhatsApp since I can communicate with my family using Signal. It's so easy that even my grandma uses it.

Re:Apple hit with over 1.8B euro EU antitrust fine in Spotif... by catothedev on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @06:12AM (#39601923)
The other element at play is that if the EU fines become so egregious that US companies pull out of offering certain products in the EU, then what would fill the vacuum? Answer: Chinese tech companies with CCP control - essentially building a direct pipeline of EU personal data that CCP can weaponize.