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Re:K8s Service Meshes: The Bill Comes Due by bushbaba on Saturday March 02, 2024 @10:35AM (#39573209)
Service Meshes are something necessary for a small portion of Fortune 500s which have 1000s of microservices. Sure you could use load balancers but it becomes cost efficient to move towards a client-side load balancer.

If you aren't a Google, Apple, Microsoft, ...etc scale company than a service mesh might be a tad overkill

Re:K8s Service Meshes: The Bill Comes Due by xyzzy_plugh on Saturday March 02, 2024 @10:57AM (#39573371)
You're close, but it's really when you have thousands of microservices using either shitty languages or shitty client RPC libraries where you can't easily perform client-side load balancing.

There are plenty of languages and RPC frameworks where you can solve this without resorting to a service mesh.

Practically, and to your point, service meshes solve an organizational problem, not a technical one.

Re:K8s Service Meshes: The Bill Comes Due by marcosdumay on Saturday March 02, 2024 @11:24AM (#39573566)
I don't get this either. Doesn't the mesh become an scalability bottleneck just like load balancers?

On that scale I'd expect people to use client-selected replicated services (like SMTP), and never something that centralizes connections (no matter where it's close to).

You can always add observability at the endpoints. Unless your infrastructure is very unusual (like some random part of it costing millions of times more for no good reason, as on the cloud), this is not a big challenge; you add it to the frameworks your people use. (I mean, people don't go and design an entire service with whatever random components they pick, or do they?)

Re:K8s Service Meshes: The Bill Comes Due by crackez on Saturday March 02, 2024 @12:06PM (#39573884)
With Istio (envoy) you run a "sidecar" container in your pods which handles the "mesh" traffic, so it scales with the number of instances of your pods.
Re:K8s Service Meshes: The Bill Comes Due by marcosdumay on Saturday March 02, 2024 @12:37PM (#39574140)
Oh, thanks. That does solve the issue.
Re:K8s Service Meshes: The Bill Comes Due by remram on Saturday March 02, 2024 @11:49AM (#39573760)
Isn't kube-proxy already a client-side load-balancer?
Re:K8s Service Meshes: The Bill Comes Due by packetlost on Saturday March 02, 2024 @11:29AM (#39573605)
So like a DNS SRV record with multiple entries. Or Anycast, if you're being fancy
Re:K8s Service Meshes: The Bill Comes Due by remram on Saturday March 02, 2024 @11:50AM (#39573767)
Or IPVS... wait that's built into Kubernetes, it's kube-proxy.
Re:K8s Service Meshes: The Bill Comes Due by packetlost on Saturday March 02, 2024 @11:53AM (#39573793)
Right? Like, I really don't understand the problem that service mesh solves that isn't already solved by more standardized technologies
Re:K8s Service Meshes: The Bill Comes Due by kircr on Sunday March 03, 2024 @12:52PM (#39582623)
kube-proxy operates at L3/L4 while service meshes generally operate at L7 so it can load balance on a per HTTP request basis. Particularly useful for long lived connections commonly used in gRPC and others.