Bonuses can be considered either contractual or discretionary. If there was any mention or implication that the referral bonus was discretionary, then the company can withhold payment for any reason, such as poor employee performance or low revenue/profits.

At my company, all bonuses are considered discretionary. They plainly and clearly lay out the parameters of the bonus structure, but they also reserve the right to withhold the bonus for any reason. They rarely reign in on their promise as it significantly hurts morale. However it is well known that if you leave the company before a bonus is paid out, that you will not receive the money, regardless of whether or not you have already fulfilled the parameters for the bonus.

At my company, it's a perk. And I love paying it out. And my loyalty is to my employees. I would bleed for them. But it's not to my former employees. As I approach 100 employees, many who have been with me for 4+ years, I find my stance to be entirely in their favor.

I don't think this relates to the discussion at all. Based on the article, it sounds like it was not merely a perk at Miso. If you say you are going to pay it (in writing, etc), you must pay it.

At your company, I'm sure you've done the correct legal things to make sure that it's defined as a perk. But I don't see any evidence that that's how Miso has done it.

BTW, showing no loyalty to your former employees is a black mark in my book. I would urge you to reconsider your attitude.

I'm not so sure that his actions would be considered "disloyal" to his former employees. If anything, his former employees might be happy that their founder was called out on a mistake, to prevent the founder from doing other sleazy tactics on current employees.

I'm not going to defend my boss if he did something morally deficient, and I would be happy if my coworkers has the cajones to call him out.

You are seriously saying in public that if somebody forgot to ask for the bonus at the 6 month mark you'd just pocket it if they left at any point before remembering to ask for it?

Your loyalty to your employees should include respect for contracts and the law. This man satisfied the conditions for payment of the bonus before he left the company, he is entitled to the money. That you would not give it to him makes you little better than a thief.

Fortunately, we all now know that OpenDNS and anything else David Ulevitch is involved with in the future is a company to avoid.

Do you always come to these conclusions so quickly? I'm sharing my opinion, based on my experiences. I also explained that at my company perks are for employees, a status that the OP no longer maintains at Miso. Neither of us know the specifics of their deal.

I think you've jumped a few steps ahead of where you ought to be at this juncture. Perhaps you simply disagree with my point of view. I think HN is often one-sided, so I sometimes delude myself into thinking I should contribute. But now you have resorted to calling me a thief and encouraging others (along with Google indexes) to never do business with me. I think you've stepped a bit over the line.

You have announced to the world, entirely of your own accord, that you will flout the law and steal money from your employees. This is your doing, not mine. Is it also your habit to blame others for your own shortcomings?

I agree with davidu that you crossed the line. I certainly had a bad opinion about davidu and his company before your comment, but I didn't know who davidu was, or what his company was. So now I have a bad opinion about real life stuff, based off one comment with little context (perhaps it was hastily written, etc).

Taking one comment and trying to tie it to google juice about real life is a dickish move, IMO.

> Fortunately, we all now know that OpenDNS and anything else David Ulevitch is involved with in the future is a company to avoid.

It seems that's true only if you value treating people with respect when you aren't legally obligated to.

Again, a wild and broad conclusion based on my perspective that perks for employees are valid for actual employees, and not former employees. The company should have paid it out when he earned it. The employee should have requested it before quitting. Neither event happened. It doesn't matter if the employee quit two days ago, two weeks ago or two decades ago. He's not an employee now and should just move on with his life.

"Too bad you forgot sucks for you" is not what the law says, nor is it the ethical thing to do, IMO.

> "Too bad you forgot sucks for you" is not what the law says, nor is it the ethical thing to do, IMO.

That's not what's going on.

It's "Too bad we forgot and you forgot to remind us sucks for you."