Tell us about the stack you're using to build this. Also the biggest tech challenges you've faced and solved? But most importantly, does your family still use Google Spreadsheets?

Google Sheets is banned in our households, we planned our neighborhood block party in Row Zero!

Tech stack:

Everything runs on AWS

Frontend: TypeScript + some Rust compiled to WASM, our own virtualized custom canvas magic

Backend: Rust, Apache Arrow

The biggest tech challenges... where to start.

1. As with any editor application, Undo/Redo is devilishly hard

2. A spreadsheet is modeled as a Directed Acyclic Graph where cells depend on other cells down to some root cells. There are a TON of fascinating graph theory algorithms you can bring to bear here. Some of the hardest problems I have ever worked on. My whiteboard looks like an insane person's with crazy arrows between cells and stuff.

3. Sometimes there really is no magic bullet and you just have to run benchmark, get flamegraph, chip away 3%, repeat, do that 100 times and you are very fast. Gotta grind.

Nice work, did you start off by looking at any previously built canvas-like spreadsheets or was it straight to "virtualized custom canvas magic"?

I interviewed at a spreadsheet company (for a frontend role) and they asked, "how would you go about determining what cells need a border when a user clicks an individual cell, clicks a cell and selects multiple cells, clicks a cell next to an already selected cell." Fascinating problem and we talked about solutions for a little bit.

Noticed that you can't unselect a cell once it's selected? I'm on a Mac with Chrome (latest, no updates available).

Repo steps: 1. Select a few cells (⌘ + click) or an individual cell 2. Try unselecting (⌘ + click) those same cells clicked in #1 3. Cell is not unselected

Row Zero frontend dev here -- when architecting, we looked at some off-the-shelf canvas-based table tools, but ultimately rolled our engine for more control & flexibility with our growing feature set. We elected for canvas over DOM for perf among other reasons (eg DOM scrollbar virtualization is hard when MAX_ROW * ROW_HEIGHT exceeds the maximum allowed browser element height).

Great interview question. Tons of nuance to drawing borders on adjacent cells, how to handle varying thickness, etc. Once you start looking closely, you notice the pixel differences between how this gets handled by various spreadsheeting tools.

Thanks for the report! This one's already on my list actually (selection negation & unique selection deduping) -- look for a fix soon.

Did you look at https://grid.glideapps.com/ by chance for rendering? Curious what it didn't support if you did.

I don't remember looking at Glide, although it looks really nice & full-featured. I'll have to play around with it sometime. I do remember trying out https://www.npmjs.com/package/@deephaven/grid.

One pivotal feature that is difficult to map onto 3P tools is our data table UI, which is a separate scrollable grid that floats on top of the main sheet. That, combined with the complexity of formula selection, inserting buttons into cells (header dropdowns, filter, sort), led us to decide that rolling our own solution for full control was the right choice.

Congrats on releasing the product! What are you using instead of the native scroll event of a browser element? Are you listener to `onwheel` events? Have you find a way to keep scrolling momentun scroll-browser/cross-device or do you normalize the delta to +1/-1?

I am the creator of DataGridXL (https://datagridxl.com), an Excel-like data grid component and it uses native scrolling. However, the document/sheet height/width is indeed limited by max div dimensions. Does your spreadsheet have a max?

How is the data modelled and persisted? What database and how is conflict handled? CRDT?

We use Apache Arrow data format, so it's fairly columnar. We have built some custom layers on top of Arrow as well to handle some fancier data types.

For storage and orchestration we use S3 and Dynamo.

Yes exactly, we use CRDTs for multiplayer stuff.

Thanks! A digressing question. How does one go about learning to build an amazing platform line Row Zero?

We were fortunate to work in AWS which has some of the gnarliest datastructures and algorithms problems in the world, so we got really good there. Spreadsheets are really just more datastructures and algorithms on the backend.

Our frontend guy is brilliant and built a lot of awesome stuff at Airtable, but I can't speak to the craziness that is high-complexity high-performance frontend. But it's absolutely necessary to a good product too!

Excuse me for probing further.

Can you share some of the books that can help with this? Which algorithms were used, how etc.

Thank in advance, I am using Row Zero since yesterday and loving it thoroughly.

I don't have any great book recommendations because I learned on the job mostly.

For a project that will teach you literally everything there is to know about backend development:

1. Write a simple PUT/GET/DELETE REST API network layer, this should be a few hundred lines of code max depending on how much you choose to lean on libraries vs write it yourself

2. Then, write a simple in-memory blob store behind the PUT/GET/DELETE REST API. Just use a very simple hashmap of keys to data. You now have an in-memory S3 mock!

3. Now, rather than in-memory hashmap, start saving the files to disk. Write code that allows you to start and stop the process and recover all the data from disk. Now you have a persistent S3 mock.

4. Now, start finding the limits of this application. Write a program that calls your API with different usage patterns to load test it. Find the limits.

5. Now start optimizing. You can go as far as you want here. This optimization process was my whole career at AWS S3, and most of it at Row Zero.

6. If you want to really learn some advanced data structures and algorithms, stop using the filesystem directly, and write your own storage mechanism. Allocate 1 giant 16GB (or however large) file and store all of your blob data inside that 16GB "partition". You have to do all the serialization and retrieval etc yourself.

Your filesystem is already doing this for you when you store as files (look up how the ext4 filesystem works, inodes, pages, etc). But your filesystem is probably optimized for consumer use, not this blob-storage system use.

So you can implement your own much faster version if you want. If you want to really learn datastructures and algorithms, try to code a simple Log Structured Merge Tree. This will teach hashes, trees, bloom filters, serialization, deserialization, etc, all with high performance in mind.

Thanks! Appreciate your detailed response!!

Coming to this late, but...

What made you choose this tech stack? I'm especially wondering about Rust, was that something you had familiarity with before so just went with that? Did you evaluate a few different options and decided that would best fit this use-case?

(I have very minimal familiarity with Rust, I'm just wondering here.)

Do you support the equivalent of Excel's Iterative calculations?

Not yet, but we can add it if customers want it.

Are you hiring or will you be later in the year?