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Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by lnxg33k1 on Friday February 16, 2024 @08:21PM (#39405337)
I suspect that in order to mangle with election one should have elections in the first place, so I guess that its not possible for other governments to do the same on the Chinese internet
Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by wongarsu on Friday February 16, 2024 @08:48PM (#39405512)
It's not like China has no political system. I don't see why concerted media efforts couldn't have an effect on who gets ahead in the CCP and who doesn't
Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by kurthr on Friday February 16, 2024 @09:10PM (#39405643)
Ummm, 100% of votes went to one person and the elderly potential political adversary was led out against his will by the leader's security on live TV as part of the "election".

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/hu-jintao-dragged-out-...

I mean King Henry VIII had parliament ratify his changes to the English church so that he could remarry 5 times.

Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by wongarsu on Friday February 16, 2024 @09:23PM (#39405712)
I agree that Chinese elections don't matter. And you won't replace the general secretary in short notice, unlike the US President who changes every couple years. But Xi doesn't rule China alone, the CCP does. And by manipulating the reputation of CCP members you can influence who gets into positions of power and who stays irrelevant, just like in a democracy
Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by kurthr on Friday February 16, 2024 @11:58PM (#39406519)
I will totally agree that there is infighting (esp with the military) within the CCP, but as others have noted it's much more centralized that the last 50 years. That doesn't mean there aren't attempts (within and without) to influence public perception and control narrative (weibo douyin wechat) with news articles, individual bans, and 五毛.

It's just that Xi (and Putin to a slightly lesser degree) have isolated themselves so much that even the US political establishment has little idea what they want or plan to do. I'm not sure even the political establishment within China knows much better.

Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by nyokodo on Friday February 16, 2024 @10:00PM (#39405921)
> But Xi doesn't rule China alone, the CCP does

Xi has consolidated power in himself to an extent not seen since Mao, maybe Stalin. Xi controls the CCP and has no rivals alive (anymore.)

Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by throwaway2990 on Friday February 16, 2024 @09:26PM (#39405736)
> But Xi doesn't rule China alone, the CCP does.

Xi has more power than the CCP.

Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by kelipso on Friday February 16, 2024 @09:56PM (#39405900)
That's simply not how political power works.
Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by throwaway2990 on Saturday February 17, 2024 @03:38AM (#39407607)
It’s naive to think Xi is not powerful. If he had less power than the CCP he would have been removed for all the disastrous decisions he’s made with covid and other aspects of the economy.
Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by kelipso on Saturday February 17, 2024 @01:58PM (#39412300)
It's naive to think that Xi is more powerful than the politicians who give him that power. I think you are severely misunderstanding how political power works.

One man just does not get political power without the support of powerful people around him. Even kings and emperors work the same way.

Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by throwaway2990 on Sunday February 18, 2024 @04:19AM (#39417523)
lol how do you think one man has so power. He has surrounded himself with people he trusts. And killed off any threat to himself.
Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by kelipso on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:03PM (#39422563)
Even so, he needs support from the party, who is stronger than the person they appoint to be leader.
Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by echelon on Friday February 16, 2024 @08:43PM (#39405479)
America used to win in such circumstances based on the power of its media exports. Hollywood. The music industry. American ideals advertised though the lens of culture.

Now we're beginning to approach fungible with domestic content production in every market.

And the US domestic market is now often funded by international interests. China-backed films highlight the intelligence and cunning of Chinese citizens, which often provide critical advice or technology to the dumb action-oriented Americans [1].

When's the last time China was an adversary in a film? Or that the henchmen or Bond villain was Chinese? It's always gotta be an Arabic, Persian, North Korean, or Russian villain.

[1] Independence Day, The Trench, etc. etc.

Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by dullcrisp on Friday February 16, 2024 @08:55PM (#39405549)
Yeah way to lose the race war, Hollywood.
Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by nirui on Saturday February 17, 2024 @02:35AM (#39407272)
> America used to win in such circumstances

It looked like that you're treating Hollywood-style cultural export as competition, and your conclusion is "America is losing control because of the involvements from China-backed films", believing the evidence is clear given how rare China was shown as "an adversary in a film"?

If what you said were pure true, that "US domestic market is now often funded by international interests" is the reason for current reality, which in turn implies that "US domestic market" is a complete sellout, then why Hollywood won't accept investments from the Persians, and then introduce some Persian superheros that sometimes randomly goes "Allahu Akbar"? The are huge money in this, why the US domestic market won't make it happen?

Maybe you're looking at the wrong direction. Maybe Hollywood (and US culture) is losing it's shine because by now, thanks to the Internet and medias (Vox, Vice, John Oliver etc), people starts to see the reality that America, behind all it's sparkling glares, also has quite a few flaws. Maybe China don't often get picked as an adversary simply because Americans just subjectively don't hate Chinese THAT much.

Here's my perspective as a Chinese: the exporting of cultural is more of a test than competition. It's a tool that communicates the cultural aspect of the exporter, to see if the importer welcomes it. It's a good tool if you want to infer the inner compatibility of the two parties, but it does very little beyond that.

Just to knock you out of your "winning" mindset: the movie Saving Private Ryan maybe resonate very well amongst Americans, after all, it's an true American hero doing American hero things. But in Chinese people's eyes (the eyes of the rest of the world, really) the movie just don't feel the same. Everyone got their own heros back home, you know? Funny enough, after watching the firm, I asked some of my friends whether or not they will save their soldier colleagues under similar situation showed in the firm, many of them answered solidly "Yes". To clarify, they were not thinking about saving Mr Ryan, instead, they were thinking about saving CHINESE soldiers Mr Zhao, Mr Qian, Mr Sun and/or Mr Li, maybe even under direct gun fire from Mr Ryan. That's something you might want to think about the next time you bring up your theories on the "victory" of America media exports ;-)

Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by echelon on Sunday February 18, 2024 @12:00PM (#39420670)
> It looked like that you're treating Hollywood-style cultural export as competition

Because it 1000% is, and China is engaging in the same game today.

> Hollywood won't accept investments from the Persians,

It absolutely would. Money can buy access. China has been one of the only countries to spend in this way for this access.

Hollywood is dying. Americans are more interested in video games, Instagram, YouTube, and the Internet. Hollywood will take money from anyone to save itself.

> Maybe Hollywood (and US culture) is losing it's shine because by now, thanks to the Internet and medias (Vox, Vice, John Oliver etc), people starts to see the reality that America, behind all it's sparkling glares, also has quite a few flaws.

> Here's my perspective as a Chinese: the exporting of cultural is more of a test than competition. It's a tool that communicates the cultural aspect of the exporter, to see if the importer welcomes it.

It's also a test to see how incompatible or divergent our societies have become. Whether due to polarity shifts, indoctrination, or tribalism and team sports.

These are the symptom of an underestimated immune system with little else to do. Most of the evils in the world are gone, so we've started chasing down the last mile. We've turned it into entertainment to attract viewers and make money.

> To clarify, they were not thinking about saving Mr Ryan, instead, they were thinking about saving CHINESE soldiers Mr Zhao, Mr Qian, Mr Sun and/or Mr Li, maybe even under direct gun fire from Mr Ryan.

Tribal thinking at it's finest. I'd save Mr. Ryan and Mr. Zhao. Or at least I think I would. That kind of courage is insane and highly laudable.

Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by nirui on Monday February 19, 2024 @02:09AM (#39426940)
> Because it 1000% is, and China is engaging in the same game today.

So China is exporting it's movie such as the Battle of Chosin Reservoir to saturate America market with it's propaganda? Can you offer any example of that happening?

The truth however, is that as soon as when China steps out of their line, America clamps down really hard. There are real world example of this happening/happened. I'm not really sure why you're painting a picture showing how weak America is when in the reality it's not the case at all.

Also, there are way more America heros in the movies than Asian ones. If everything you saw in a movie was just few Asian dudes acting cool, and it got you agitated... then maybe just wait for few years until Hollywood seeks it's new diversity hotness to show off.

> Tribal thinking at it's finest. I'd save Mr. Ryan and Mr. Zhao.

So, what you were saying is that, it's "Tribalism" if in the story Mr Miller only saved Ryan brothers, but did not but also save German soldier Mr Altenburg, Mr Bachmann and Mr Chmielewski and his 5 month old pet cat who fired at you following their orders?

I mean, how do you save someone who's actively endangering your life from a distance? I imagine it would be really hard.

Plus, do US soldier really consider to save the life of their opponents in real life during an operation? Not judging anything there, just trying to be realistic.

Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by csa on Friday February 16, 2024 @09:20PM (#39405693)
> I suspect that in order to mangle with election one should have elections in the first place

There are elections in China, and there have been for many decades.

There are other aspects of these elections that make them less likely to succumb to soft influence from the outside.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_China

Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by tivert on Saturday February 17, 2024 @12:28AM (#39406704)
>> I suspect that in order to mangle with election one should have elections in the first place, so I guess that its not possible for other governments to do the same on the Chinese internet

> There are elections in China, and there have been for many decades.

There is a reason why the refrain is not just "elections" but "free and fair elections." Communist countries are famous for offering elections with no actual choice.

Election interference in China is not possible, because its "elections" are total shams so there is no point to try.

Re:Pro CCP 'spamouflage' network pivoting to focus on US ele... by lnxg33k1 on Friday February 16, 2024 @09:49PM (#39405862)