News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Why is Common Lisp not the most popular programming langu... by m463 on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @07:34PM (#39377602)
I like python significantly more than lisp.

There are so many ways to express yourself in python that are troublesome in lisp.

I actually think list manipulation is easier in python than lisp.

I don't know, is there a lisp dialect that makes common data structures available in a multitude of ways?

I seem to be able to manipulate lists quite easily in python, and switch back and forth to sets or hashes.

but in lisp you have to dig in to find (for example):

- how to prepend to a list

- how to append to a list

- how to remove an element from a lisp

- how to do slices of lists

it seems to me like a lot of operations in lisp are needlessly efficient too.

Like instead of copying a list, you have to modify the list in place.

if my list will only have 10 elements, and my machine does millions of instructions per second, can't I copy it around a few times if I want?

Re:Why is Common Lisp not the most popular programming langu... by samatman on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @08:04PM (#39377843)
> is there a lisp dialect that makes common data structures available in a multitude of ways?

Clojure. The language is built around immutable data structures with the expected interface for maps and vectors, and the idiomatic list-churning we're both referring to is unified through the sequence abstraction. So switching from a vector to a map can often be as simple as switching constructors. Because they're immutable, every operation makes a "copy" but does so efficiently.

I don't have a lot of use for Clojure these days but I enjoyed working with it. Rich Hickey is a smart fella.

Re:Why is Common Lisp not the most popular programming langu... by rpd9803 on Thursday February 15, 2024 @09:36AM (#39383173)
this is a controversial take, but IMHO, the immutable data structures make Clojurescript (+ Reagent) a very, very nice way to build SPAs.
Re:Why is Common Lisp not the most popular programming langu... by bsdpufferfish on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @09:45PM (#39378521)
You only have to dig because you are less familiar with the language.

> copy list

Almost all functions have a copying and destructive variant.

Re:Why is Common Lisp not the most popular programming langu... by djaouen on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @10:02PM (#39378616)
Look into Hylang.
Re:Why is Common Lisp not the most popular programming langu... by LispSporks22 on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @10:52PM (#39378917)
I don’t think you know Common Lisp very well, or are talking about some super limited Lisp dialect I’ve never heard of.
Re:Why is Common Lisp not the most popular programming langu... by m463 on Friday February 16, 2024 @08:48AM (#39396940)
99% emacs lisp

hmm... maybe I need to look at the packages that use common lisp.

Re:Why is Common Lisp not the most popular programming langu... by vindarel on Thursday February 15, 2024 @05:56AM (#39381247)
Re:Why is Common Lisp not the most popular programming langu... by hajile on Thursday February 15, 2024 @04:11PM (#39388929)
This is all "I don't know the language" type stuff.

If you don't know Python, slicing syntax is also strange.

Common Lisp was VERY forward-thinking and has all kinds of these features that only became mainstream decades later.