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Re:Waymo Hits Cyclist in SF by lmm on Wednesday February 07, 2024 @11:31PM (#39298166)
> Cyclists are just dangerous

Nope. The numbers of people killed or seriously injured in road collisions that don't involve motor vehicles are absolutely tiny. Motorists are dangerous, cyclists are not.

> Cyclists sometimes behave as though they are pedestrians and other times they behave as vehicles, depending on what is convenient.

And? Is that somehow bad? This seems to be a common motorist talking point, but I've never understood what it's supposed to imply.

Re:Waymo Hits Cyclist in SF by genocidicbunny on Wednesday February 07, 2024 @11:39PM (#39298230)
> And? Is that somehow bad? This seems to be a common motorist talking point, but I've never understood what it's supposed to imply.

Yes, it can be very bad. Drivers not being predictable is a big cause of car crashes. I was always taught that when driving, don't be nice, be predictable. It's also a large part of defensive driving. A cyclist that is sometimes acting like a vehicle, and at other times as a pedestrian is not nearly as predictable.

Re:Waymo Hits Cyclist in SF by maxwellg on Wednesday February 07, 2024 @11:47PM (#39298297)
Cyclists act like cyclists, and are more or less predictable when treated as such. Cyclists are not vehicles, and it doesn't make sense to insist they behave like vehicles. The theory of vehicular cycling was one of the worst things to happen to the development of a safe cycling community in America.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/4/28/why-john-fores...

Re:Waymo Hits Cyclist in SF by genocidicbunny on Wednesday February 07, 2024 @11:57PM (#39298372)
> Cyclists act like cyclists, and are more or less predictable when treated as such.

Except when they ignore stop signs and blow through an intersection when it's not their turn, causing a car that has the right of way and is already in the intersection to slam on their brakes to try to avoid killing the cyclist, resulting in the car losing traction due to the weather conditions and to slide into a tree. Saw it happen in front of my eyes just a few days ago.

Or when to avoid stopping behind a car that was already in the turn lane in front of them, they hop up on the sidewalk and then cut off the car via the sidewalk, nearly running down several pedestrians. That one was earlier this afternoon.

Cyclists and pedestrians are not the same, and should not be treated the same, or interchangeably. I agree that the way that infrastructure is set up right now is terrible for cyclists. But it is how things are right now, and ignoring that is silly. It's not at all that different from how having pedestrians and cyclists sharing the same roadway is also not the best of ideas.

But in addition, you know those signs they have up on the side of the road, the "Share the Road" ones? Sharing goes both ways.

Re:Waymo Hits Cyclist in SF by lmm on Friday February 09, 2024 @12:07AM (#39311622)
Cyclists are no less predictable than motorists if you pay attention. I could give a litany of bad behaviour I've seen too, and the best available statistics say that motorists both break the law more often and cause vastly more deaths and serious injuries.

A shared space doesn't mean you're entitled to bringing an armoured, deadly machine into that space and expect others to take equal responsibility for the danger your machine is imposing.

Re:Waymo Hits Cyclist in SF by cozzyd on Wednesday February 07, 2024 @11:45PM (#39298275)
It seems quite predictable to me. Just assume they could be acting as either!