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Re:The Perverse Policies That Fuel Wildfires by maximinus_thrax on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:27PM (#39278320)
> for thousands of years before they were colonized had this figured out

Yes, it is outrageous that we can't directly apply the same policies and methods considering we have the same level of urbanization, population, industrial and economic requirements and private property laws /s

Re:The Perverse Policies That Fuel Wildfires by davidw on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:40PM (#39278523)
IDK about 'outrageous', but it is kind of frustrating it has taken us so long to figure out that the people who lived here knew what they were doing, and adapting their methods to our current society.
Re:The Perverse Policies That Fuel Wildfires by drone on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @03:03PM (#39279757)
It hasn't "taken us this long to figure out..." the issues around prescribed burning are fairly modern and related to overreacting/incorrectly responding to some major wildfires that killed lots of people in the late 19th and early 20th century. (See the formation of the USFS and the policies promoted by them, Smoky the Bear, etc.)

Fire was a regular tool in everyone in North America's toolkit, indigenous or otherwise, and not something white people were too stupid to figure out.

Re:The Perverse Policies That Fuel Wildfires by maximinus_thrax on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:49PM (#39278684)
On the ranking of frustrations regarding wildfires and climate change, not doing controlled burns (like the native peoples were doing) is really really low for me, especially considering all the things I just listed.
Re:The Perverse Policies That Fuel Wildfires by davidw on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:57PM (#39278814)
I live in a place with a huge national forest just to the west, so for me it is a real concern.

The speed with which this fire ripped through was no joke, as an example:

https://www.bendbulletin.com/localstate/awbrey-hall-fire-20-...

And the city got lucky because the wind was out of the NW, rather than from the west, which might have driven it straight into the city.

Re:The Perverse Policies That Fuel Wildfires by maximinus_thrax on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @06:54PM (#39282630)
So do you believe that the lack of controlled burning is the issue here or is it

> I live in a place with a huge national forest just to the west

?

I think the urban sprawl is more to blame here. It's not that we as a society have forgotten about controlled burning or we've become so 'weak' and 'librul' that we don't do what needs to be done. There is a risk here (for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calf_Canyon/Hermits_Peak_Fire) and nobody wants to take responsibility over something which may cause immediate deaths or loses of property vs something which may or may not happen in the future. Sure, it's kicking the can down the road but who exactly is to blame for cities built right next to forests?

I have a huge issue with bringing up controlled burning as it is ALWAYS used as an argument against the obvious human created climate change. 'Hey, just burn the forest fuel from time to time, no big deal', etc..

Re:The Perverse Policies That Fuel Wildfires by ToucanLoucan on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:50PM (#39278701)
If our industrial and economic requirements and private property laws prevent us from maintaining a planet we can live on, what fucking good are they? Oh yeah I'm so happy I get to own my own little 0.25 acre kingdom upon which I'm legally allowed to do anything, the libertarian fantasy, then whoops the biosphere collapsed guess I'm dead now, oh well at least we created a lot of value for shareholders!
Re:The Perverse Policies That Fuel Wildfires by maximinus_thrax on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:54PM (#39278754)
> If our industrial and economic requirements and private property laws prevent us from maintaining a planet we can live on, what fucking good are they?

I share the same view with you. But we are the minority, just FYI. I've expressed these sentiments in public and every single time I've been labeled a tree hugging commie.

This event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Western_North_America_hea... radicalized me.

Re:The Perverse Policies That Fuel Wildfires by ToucanLoucan on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @02:26PM (#39279245)
I genuinely live for all the people who get pissy at me for challenging the base assumptions of things like property rights and have no rebuttal apart from screaming "communist" at me.

If property rights cause us to kill the planet we're on because we're too stubborn to revisit that set of assumptions and maybe tweak them so we can save all of our lives, then IMO we rightly deserve the incredibly stupid demise we will suffer.