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Re:An ideological divide is emerging between young men and w... by jmyeet on Friday January 26, 2024 @09:28AM (#39142961)
The optimist in me would like to think of this as what I call "end stage patriarchy". I try not to think this signals just worse things to come.

Patriarchy and white supremacy are inextricably intertwined. Society and government largely exists to maintain institutions to enforce the subjugation of women (and BIPOCs). The last century has seem dismantling of this on a massive scale. This is of course incomplete but I attribute the rise of communities like MRA (mens rights activists), red and black pilled, regression in the access to reproductive medical care (abortion and contraception) and so on as a reaction to this power shift.

Evidence of all this is everywhere too eg the phenomenon of conservative men lying on dating apps because being honest leads to automatic rejection [1].

I'm old enough to have been an adult in the 1990s. Many of us will call this the last good decade. Why? Because the standards of living were much higher. This was before the War on Terror (and the subsequent rise in Islamophobia), etc. There was bad stuff too and I'm glad a lot of progress has been made on things like womens' rights and LBTQ+ rights.

It's easy to become a pessimist but honestly I'm hopeful that current reactionary trends are a sign that things are getting better. GenZ seems to be breaking the trend that voters get more conservative as they get older and that is a good thing.

[1]: https://www.vice.com/en/article/9keaxv/politics-dating-apps-...

Re:An ideological divide is emerging between young men and w... by czbond on Friday January 26, 2024 @09:36AM (#39143065)
> Patriarchy and white supremacy are inextricably intertwined.

I don't want to get into the topic deeply - but this quote displays to me you have not traveled much outside of the U.S.

China, Japan, Central America, portions of the Middle East, Northern Africa cultures as a start display Patriarchy heavily.... without the "lets link it to white people" effects. It is fun for some people to dump on the U.S., but once one actually deeply looks at other cultures, you realize Patriarchy is a human issue - Not a U.S. issue

I employ all "U.S. bashers" to travel more. You'll come back humbled, and a bit more thankful for where the U.S. is, even if we are not perfect

Re:An ideological divide is emerging between young men and w... by jmyeet on Friday January 26, 2024 @09:46AM (#39143179)
More generally there's an in group and an out group. In Europe and the Americas (including South and Central America) it's people who can largely be described as "white". Yes this applies to Latino and Hispanic countries (eg Brazil [1]).

As for South Korea, "whiteness" still plays a big role eg "looking white" [2].

Japan is essentially a monoculture. You're not Japanese if you're not ethnically japanese. How is that not "white supremacy" in a different form?

China is similar with the supremacy of the Han Chinese [3].

The Middle East very much has racial supremacy. Look at how all the imported workers aret reated from the Phillipines and India. Or the treatment of the Kurds. In Saudi Arabia, Arabs sit at the top. In Iran, it's ethnic Persians.

And this is before we even get started on Israel and Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Ethiopian Jews and of course ethnic Arabs (Palestinians including Israeli Arabs).

As one example from Africa, look at Kenya [4].

[1]: https://www.npr.org/2013/09/19/224152635/skin-color-still-pl...

[2]: https://humsci.stanford.edu/feature/stanford-scholar-traces-...

[3]: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2009/07/on-ui...

[4]: https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/15/middleeast/tunisia-president-...

Re:An ideological divide is emerging between young men and w... by JumpCrisscross on Friday January 26, 2024 @09:54AM (#39143270)
> there's an in group and an out group

Which means “patriarchy and white supremacy” are not “inextricably intertwined.” Exhibit A for this not being race determined: how we keep redefining “whiteness” in America based on whoever is rich. To the point, today, that White + Asian is a common category. (Or how we cleave Hispanic from non-Hispanic Whites.)

Patriarchy is intertwined with wealth and power, but in a demonstrably extricable way. Conflating it with racism is a terrific way to halt any progress towards dismantling it, and for good reason.

Re:An ideological divide is emerging between young men and w... by czbond on Friday January 26, 2024 @09:53AM (#39143258)
I do not disagree with you... but calling the issue "white supremacy" is misleading. The examples you mention are bias, bigotry, and racism applied to each culture.

Chinese, Japanese, or Hispanic, or Middle Easterners would never consider themselves "white". It is a term, where people want to lump U.S. whites together in the U.S. wholly as bad, and suggest they're evil in the U.S. and now globally.

People in the U.S. just happen to be historically white, just like Chinese just happen to be historically of Chinese descent, etc.

Re:An ideological divide is emerging between young men and w... by Adverblessly on Friday January 26, 2024 @10:28AM (#39143730)
> And this is before we even get started on Israel and Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Ethiopian Jews and of course ethnic Arabs (Palestinians including Israeli Arabs).

Ashkenazi Jews (the in group) tend to vote more liberal than Sephardic/Mizrahi Jews. Israeli Arabs parties, while associated with the left due to their position on Palestine, are extremely conservative (e.g. pushing for conversion therapy).

Re:An ideological divide is emerging between young men and w... by herlitzj on Friday January 26, 2024 @09:53AM (#39143251)
You also don't need to go back very far in history to see how white patriarchal empires dominated/shaped most (all?) of these regions and countries for centuries.
Re:An ideological divide is emerging between young men and w... by czbond on Friday January 26, 2024 @11:32AM (#39144519)
I would submit, that white patriarchal opinion is due to the time period you are sampling coupled with,in this case, mobility by boat to allow a more global reach.

There were Mongols, Kush / Egyptian in Africa, Inca, Navajo in North America, etc etc - pulling from large and small groups. Even within a group, the India Caste system did the same within a population

Re:An ideological divide is emerging between young men and w... by rswskg on Friday January 26, 2024 @09:33AM (#39143022)
'Patriarchy and white supremacy are inextricably intertwined'

You understand there are many societys in this world, in fact the majority of them, which would conteract that statement?

'Society and government largely exists to maintain institutions to enforce the subjugation of women (and BIPOCs)' - care to explain that statement?

Re:An ideological divide is emerging between young men and w... by tivert on Friday January 26, 2024 @11:11AM (#39144262)
> You understand there are many societys in this world, in fact the majority of them, which would conteract that statement?

No. The entire world can be assumed to be like America, so Americans don't need to really think about it. Everything foreign is properly understood by mapping it to familiar American concepts and obsessions.

Re:An ideological divide is emerging between young men and w... by shrimp_emoji on Friday January 26, 2024 @11:50AM (#39144754)
It's end stage legacy biology.

The future is asexual transhuman clones grown in pods.

Re:An ideological divide is emerging between young men and w... by incomingpain on Friday January 26, 2024 @11:29AM (#39144487)
>The optimist in me would like to think of this as what I call "end stage patriarchy". I try not to think this signals just worse things to come.

This is for sure a view you could have. Nothing wrong with that.

>This is of course incomplete but I attribute the rise of communities like MRA (mens rights activists), red and black pilled, regression in the access to reproductive medical care (abortion and contraception) and so on as a reaction to this power shift.

Do you think we should continue censoring these groups as hate speech?

>It's easy to become a pessimist but honestly I'm hopeful that current reactionary trends are a sign that things are getting better. GenZ seems to be breaking the trend that voters get more conservative as they get older and that is a good thing.

OP addressed this point. The sexual divide is greatest in gen Z.

Re:An ideological divide is emerging between young men and w... by mlrtime on Friday January 26, 2024 @01:36PM (#39146180)
> Patriarchy and white supremacy

Doesn't exist in America today. White supremacy exists only in fringe groups that have no influence.

Patriarchy is non existent today. I'd love to be proven wrong with hard examples.