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Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by antihipocrat on Sunday January 07, 2024 @01:24AM (#38899007)
What choice did the wasp have but to infect and inflict suffering upon the caterpillar? For through that suffering a hundred new wasps are given life, whose primary goal is to find other caterpillars and continue the cycle.

The removal of this form of suffering from the existence of the caterpillar would require the extinction (and associated suffering) of every living member of that species of wasp.

How can karma be negative to the wasp that has no choice but to act in the way it does by biological necessity? More generally, how does karma reconcile with any act originating from biology?

If every creature on earth decided to inflict absolutely no harm on any other creature, then the only option would be to eliminate all life from the planet.

Karma suffers from the problem of evil just as much as western religion.

Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by utkarsh858 on Sunday January 07, 2024 @04:34AM (#38899843)
1) You are right wasp, and similar beings dont have much choice, whatever they do they are mistly dictated by nature and they have to act accordingly. That is why there is no karma for them. They cannot create any karma or 'sin' BUT they can suffer the reactions of the bad karma they have done in past life (in a species when they actually had the intelligence to differentiate between right and wrong).

A crude example: A man torturing a caterpillar for fun, may have to take birth in a life of caterpillar and endure the same pain, either by a human or different species.

Karma does not negate biology, karma is a law which acts on 'subtler' platform than gross law of biology. pleaseure and suffering decided according to law of karma is manifested by biology(through chance and probabilities)!

Thanks for such wonderful questions, am open to more.

Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by antihipocrat on Sunday January 07, 2024 @05:39AM (#38900095)
So in the karmic worldview, creatures that have no free agency are karmically neutral? If so, how would the hypothetical soul that is born in the form of a caterpillar (or another lifeform with zero free agency) be able to ever gain karma?
Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by utkarsh858 on Sunday January 07, 2024 @10:10AM (#38901805)
Not karmically neutral. They can not produce new reactions but consume older ones.

Once its bad reactions( because of which he had to take a life form with so little consciousness ) are over it can get a new form with more intelligence.

Soul never takes a form, it is distinct from matter. Dull matter takes the form. It only 'directs' matter. After old body is destroyed it gets a new body.

Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by antihipocrat on Sunday January 07, 2024 @03:46PM (#38904975)
I find this interesting, do you have a recommendation for further reading?
Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by utkarsh858 on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:13PM (#38908193)
There is a monk who likes to explain eastern philosophy in a very wholesome and technical way. Book Reference: 1>. 'Demystifying Reincarnation' https://www.amazon.in/Demystifying-Reincarnation-Chaitanya-C...

2>. 'Frequently unanswered questions' https://www.amazon.in/Frequently-Unanswered-Questions-Chaita...

For a way too technical and scientific analysis of eastern philosophy check out 'Atma Paradigm' series(my respect to you if you actually complete that): 3>. https://m.youtube.com/@TheAtmaParadigm/videos

High quality articles on various controversial scenarios in terms of karma https://www.thespiritualscientist.com/?s=Karma________

Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by hypertele-Xii on Sunday January 07, 2024 @02:07AM (#38899195)
The wasp can choose to start integrating non-caterpillar food sources into its diet, reducing suffering at first while it evolves the necessary digestive system, ultimately minimizing and eliminating suffering.

Wasps are somewhat doomed that they haven't made this choice before. The pit gets deeper and deeper the more you dig. The climb will be longer and harder the later you start.

If fish can learn to breathe air, walk on land, and care for their young, wasps can learn to not eat caterpillars.

Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by antihipocrat on Sunday January 07, 2024 @03:04AM (#38899456)
The wasp hatchlings eat the caterpillar from the inside. The wasp needs the caterpillar as a vessel for its eggs.

The wasp has a choice like a tapeworm can choose to exist outside of the gut.. that is, it doesn't have any choice at all.

Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by hypertele-Xii on Sunday January 07, 2024 @03:27AM (#38899569)
Incorrect. The tapeworm can choose where and how in the gut it exists. It can choose how much it leeches from its host. There are always choices to be made that direct our evolution, for you, me, the wasp, and the tapeworm.

Your attitude is fatalistic. You're saying we're all doomed to repeat the mistakes of our ancestors until we die or get lucky. That's a belief. A false one at that.

Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by antihipocrat on Sunday January 07, 2024 @03:42AM (#38899628)
The tapeworm has no conception that it exists inside a larger creature and that its nutrition is obtained by leeching off its host.

The tapeworm has no choice because it has no ability to comprehend the context of its own existence. A lot of human beings find themselves in the same predicament through no fault of their own.

Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by hypertele-Xii on Sunday January 07, 2024 @03:51AM (#38899662)
That seems so 100% wrong to me. Who are you to say what tapeworms do or don't comprehend? We don't even understand consciousness, yet here you are exclaiming that tapeworms are essentially robots fated to die of extinction.

They are not. They are conscious beings in charge of their lives and evolution like any other being is. They might have less brain cells than us, but you don't know what they are thinking.

Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by MattPalmer1086 on Sunday January 07, 2024 @07:34AM (#38900720)
Pretty sure they are not contemplating the problem of evil and whether they can make better moral choices. But, you know, who knows, right?
Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by sleeplessworld on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:00PM (#38902859)
Animals do not become thinking beings, by human standards, just because we wish it to be so. I have had cats for most of my life. They are wonderful conscious and sentient beings. But they have limitations. As far as I can tell, they are a type of biological machine. They have a brain that is essentially some very advanced hardware. On that hardware is running very advanced software, that provides the cat with e.g. sensory functions, memory, processing and body control. Which means it can sense, see, feel, react and decide based on stimuli, sensory inputs, memory, programmed reactions, inherent drives, instincts etc. Does that make the cat an automaton? Maybe so, probably so. But it is an automaton, and a learning-adaptive one at that, so advanced that it is conscious and sentient. I think the cat very much feels and experiences that it is alive, feels and makes decisions.

As we observe the natural world, it seems that various types of animals have different levels of "consciousness" and "sentience". I don't think the caterpillar is very conscious and thinking, it is running a smaller program on less hardware, but I think it may be more living than biology in general gives it credit for. I think we have the same functions as described, and more. Including limitations that we don't think about most of the time. As the cat also does not. This "more" is what separates us from animals. We have the same basic system, but we also have more than this. Which, among many things, gives rise to us contemplating what consciousness and sentience is, both in ourselves and in the animal world. And makes us perceive good and evil and have morals. For the cat good and evil is irrelevant. It does not have morals. It has a nature, which is the program running for that type of animal. The nature of the cat is to kill and eat the mouse. Good and evil is not involved. The wasp lays eggs in the caterpillar. Good and evil is not involved. It is nature and it is their programming. Where we humans may be able to use our consciousnes to change our programming to some extent, the animals cannot change their programming. It evolves indirectly over time and generations.

Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by tumsfestival on Sunday January 07, 2024 @02:36AM (#38899320)
You seem to think that evolution is both an intelligent and controllable process. It isn't.
Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by hypertele-Xii on Sunday January 07, 2024 @03:24AM (#38899554)
It literally is though. Sexual selection, emphasis on selection, is conscious. You choose half the genes of your descendants. Unless there's only one mating option. You also choose where you hang, and what you eat, which drives adaptations to that environment.
Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by jddj on Sunday January 07, 2024 @04:01AM (#38899704)
You might feel like you have conscious control over the process of acting on your preferences to select the candidate for the randomish splicing of the genes of your partner's parents and your own parents.

Did you choose your preferences, though?

Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by hypertele-Xii on Sunday January 07, 2024 @07:01AM (#38900521)
Yes! I've consciously decided to learn to like many things in life that I used to hate, because they are good for me. I see no reason to assume animals aren't capable of the same. It just takes time.
Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by secstate on Sunday January 07, 2024 @09:39AM (#38901550)
How does this pattern of thought not lead to eugenics?
Re:A Planet of Parasites and the Problem with God by hypertele-Xii on Monday January 08, 2024 @01:33AM (#38908902)
"A set of beliefs and practices that aim to improve the genetic quality of a human population"?

That just describes sexual selection in general. Of course you think with your big head when choosing a mate, not the small one that's easily fooled.

You make it sound like choosing good genes for your offspring is evil or something.