But there are so many land mines in these conversations --- like, and I'm not trying to pick on you here, "Israel is fully justified in cutting off supplies to Gaza because Gaza is independent of Israel" --- that threads spiral off into repetitive and increasingly emotive flame wars.
I think this is probably just not a very good topic for HN. Lots of important topics aren't good fits for a moderated, open-access, anonymous Internet message board catering largely to technologists. That's OK! There's a whole big Internet out there.
I didn't write that.
What I did write - that Israel is under no obligation to give Gaza free utilities - is true.
Hamas openly does support genocide, see the Hamas charter.
Worth noting maybe that the three of us on this thread are some of the last people keeping this unproductive conversation going, across the whole site. I'll do my best to reduce that count now!
I've shown how those aren't happening, you had no retort, so we've establish there is no ethnic cleansing. Unless you mean Hamas intention to murder all Jewish people worldwide.
> The IDF created a situation in which 500.000 people might die in the next 12 months, without further bombing.
No, Hamas created that situation. There was a ceasefire before Oct 7. There have been many offered since, most recently one week in exchange for returning 40 kidnapped people. Hamas puts military infrastructure in schools, and UNRWA / Hamas school raise children to be martyrs, creating this situation.
> Israel as an occupying force
Israel is not an occupying force as previously discussed. Neither is Egypt. Nobody is obliged to open their borders. You wouldn't. I wouldn't.
> attacks on Palestinian refugee camps
These aren't refugee camps. They're collections of concrete buildings with permanent occupants. The building you're typing this from would be considered a Refugee Camp if you were in Gaza. Likewise Hamas openly instructs all deaths to be reported as 'civilian deaths'.
> The claim that reducing Gaza to rubble and murdering or dislocating all the people there is the only way to ensure safety is nonsense
Agreed.
I haven't seen anyone making the claim murdering all the people in Gaza is the only way to ensure safety.
You've found one minister that wants to move people in Gaza to someone else. But that's not the majority view and is fairly extreme.
The majority view of the way to ensure safety is this:
Most people want Israel to pay UAE to police Gaza.
- For Israel: Hamas must no longer exist. They need to give the baby back (yes they have a bay, he just turned one), the women may be being raped (Mia mentioned she was only likely not raped because of her captor's wife), the men may be tortured, they have 6 people over 79 years old.
- For Gaza: Gazan arabs are happy to be policed by other arabs, more than they are Israelis (even Arab Israelis). Gazans may want to live more than they love to die (that's not me saying that, it's a frequent claim by Hamas supporters that they love death).
- For UAE: UAE hates seeing arabs be poor and wants peace in the region. Gaza is valuable when not run by a death cult.