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Re:What Happened to EVs? by lukas099 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @02:00AM (#38863986)
You're forgetting opportunity cost. The $10k is not stuffed in your mattress, you can do stuff with it. You can buy CDs that return over 5% APY right now (giving you a $500/year budget without even touching your principal). Let alone investing in stock ETFs.
Re:What Happened to EVs? by mlyle on Thursday January 04, 2024 @02:35AM (#38864216)
> You can buy CDs that return over 5% APY right now (giving you a $500/year budget without even touching your principal)

Not really, because your principal loses value because of inflation.

If you buy that $10k CD, you get $500 out per year; you pay a couple hundred bucks of that in taxes, leaving $300. If inflation sticks around 3.2%, you'll be losing $20/year before you spend anything.

Re:What Happened to EVs? by lukas099 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @03:53AM (#38864698)
You wouldn't withdraw $500 per year, you would leave it invested and spend $500 that you already have liquid from elsewhere.

But it's beside the point. The point is that opportunity costs must be accounted for.

Re:What Happened to EVs? by NavinF on Thursday January 04, 2024 @04:21AM (#38864899)
It doesn't matter when you withdraw the money, the taxes will be the same. $10k earning 5% compounded monthly will be $16,470 in 10 years. After paying 1/3 of the gains in taxes, you'll be left with $14,313 which has a present value of $10,446 at 3.2% inflation.

So yeah opportunity costs must be accounted for, but in your scenario the opportunity cost is negligible. We're talking 0.4% per year. Investing in a CD is like pissing in the ocean

Re:What Happened to EVs? by mlyle on Thursday January 04, 2024 @04:17AM (#38864870)
> You wouldn't withdraw $500 per year,

You still generally owe taxes as the interest is accrued. So, the situation doesn't change-- that CD loses money unless your tax rate is low.

Even with compounded interest not subject to taxation until withdrawal, it's not much better. Even in a ridiculous case with 30 years, 10000 * (1.05^30) = $43220 ; minus .4 * 33220 = $29932; 29932 / (1.032^30) = $11401-- or about .4% real return per year.

Opportunity costs beyond inflation make the picture even more ridiculous.

Re:What Happened to EVs? by NavinF on Thursday January 04, 2024 @04:25AM (#38864940)
Interesting, I used different numbers (10 years and 33% tax) in my comment but got the same result of 0.4% real returns. Check my math
Re:What Happened to EVs? by mlyle on Thursday January 04, 2024 @04:49AM (#38865119)
(10000 * (1.05^10) - 10000) * .67 = 4213. 14213/(1.032^10) = 10372; or about a .36% return.

Not surprising that a lower tax rate gets to the same number sooner through compounding.

BUt the bigger issue is that you have to pay tax on interest as it is accrued, not all at the end. So in your case there's a 3.35% return vs. 3.2% inflation or a .15% net return.

Re:What Happened to EVs? by NavinF on Thursday January 04, 2024 @04:57AM (#38865168)
Thanks, makes sense
Re:What Happened to EVs? by d1sxeyes on Thursday January 04, 2024 @02:07AM (#38864042)
Yes but you can recoup the entirety of what you put in when you sell your house (normally with a healthy margin).
Re:What Happened to EVs? by aembleton on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:59AM (#38867767)
You could invest it in real estate as that has historically had a great return.
Re:What Happened to EVs? by xyzzyz on Friday January 05, 2024 @02:23AM (#38876625)
Yeah, for example, you could invest it in an extra room in your house.